|
Date: Sat, October 19, 2013 3:07 pm (answered 20 October 2013) Dear Whatever your name is, I just finished reading your article entitled "The Religious Roots of Alcoholics Anonymous and the Twelve Steps." It is quite apparent you have expended much time and energy researching AA's inception and the men involved. I believe some of the questions you pose and the arguments and postulations you make are no doubt valid and well founded. What I don't understand is the reason for your crusade against the AA program. Based upon the emotionally vitriolic content of your writing one might assume you are an atheistically inclined individual struggling with your own alcoholism and using the imperfections of the program founders to completely invalidate a set of principles that have changed hundreds of thousands of peoples' lives. Might this stem from your own inability to get sober and thus needing to place the blame of your own failings onto the shoulders of others? Although not Catholic, when I was younger I used the behavior of my Catholic aunts, uncles and cousins to indict the entire Catholic Church. Regardless of what you might think of Catholicism many find peace in the practice of it. Such is the case with Alcoholics Anonymous. Why throw the baby out with the bath water? Have you taken on the crusade simply to validate your need to be right or to make others wrong? Or are you simply that threatened by "The Cult?" You seem like an intelligent individual to me...why not take on more lofty crusades such as world hunger, genocide, pollution, overpopulation, terrorism, etc.? I find your crusade against AA sadly narrow in scope and woefully misguided despite and regardless of the accuracy of the arguments you profer. Sincerely, Rick T.
Hello Rick,
Thank you for the letter and the questions.
For a name, you may call me either Orange or Terrance. It doesn't matter.
Happily, my work on this web site is not
caused by any failure to get and stay sober. In fact, coincidentally,
today is my thirteenth "sobriety birthday". Yes, as of today, I now have
13 years off of alcohol and drugs. And in three more weeks, I'll also have 13 years off of tobacco.
I got sober, and I stay sober, without any help from A.A.
I have never done the 12 Steps, I never had a sponsor, and I don't believe in the Big Book
or Bill Wilson or Buchmanism, and I don't go to A.A. meetings.
The reason why I am so opposed to A.A. and its so-called "program" is because of
the people whom I have seen die,
and the others
whom I have seen hurt by quackery and fraud.
A.A. doesn't help people; it gives them misinformation and makes them more likely to die.
There is no "baby" to throw out with the bath water. A.A. does not work. A.A. does not keep a
single one of its promises. A.A. is a fraud.
Alcoholics Anonymous is just another religious cult that pushes a quack cure
that some nutcase invented a long time ago.
Just like so many other cults and radical religions and radical political parties, A.A. teaches that
if you conform and obey the rules and obey the leaders, you will be happy, and you will be
successful in life, and you will get a guaranteed ticket to Heaven.
But that just isn't true. The meaning of life is not to follow the leader.
Speaking of the promises that A.A. makes, here is Bill Wilson's list of promises:
Not a single one of those promises is true.
It's a shame that that stuff doesn't really work. We could
be cranking out saints on an assembly-line basis if it did.
Notice that The Promises actually say that you are a real spiritual slob.
You are not happy or serene or grateful. You are selfish and you regret the past.
You are not free.
You don't see. You are self-seeking. You are afraid.
You feel self-pity. You feel useless.
You don't know how to handle situations, and you can't do things for yourself.
Geez. You are a real loser.
And if The Promises don't materialize in your life, it's because you are a defective
loser who didn't work The Program right, and you weren't
"painstaking about this phase of our development."
The Program is perfect;
you are a loser.
Yes, it's a cult.
Lastly, you asked why I was focused on A.A. and recovery, and not writing about other things like "world hunger, genocide, pollution, overpopulation, terrorism, etc.". I got focused on A.A. and alcoholism treatment by a sequence of events and experiences in my life, like by seeing how A.A. was being used as a quack cure for alcohol abuse and alcohol addiction, and seeing how that was harming more people than it helped. You can read the story here: A biography written for SOS. I can't be an expert on all subjects all of the time, so I will leave those other issues to other people. Besides, when people ask me to give my attention to other subjects, what they often really mean is, "Why don't you stop writing inconvenient truths about Alcoholics Anonymous and go do something else?" No, I think I'll stick to this subject until the job is done. Have a good day now. == Orange
Date: Sun, October 20, 2013 11:37 am (answered 22 October 2013) I found your very interesting and informative website several years ago. I had once again become addicted to alcohol and had been toying with going back to a 12 step program. I had never been one of the enthusiastic kool-aid drinkers, choosing to take what you want, leave the rest. Initially found it to be a helpful time filler and could always keep sober in between meetings. After a while, came to really resent some of the horrible advice given under the guise of "sharing our experience, strength, and hope." Anyway, thanks for the info. I am wondering if you have any information about NA? This was the group I had gone to off and on for a year +. I did find some things helpful, but for the most part have found my support through family, church, and friends. You know what the biggest gripe I had was? I started noticing the parroting of information, just vomiting up the same stuff week after week. People would bitch about how rotten their week was, how they cussed everyone out and treated people like shit. "But thank God for the NA program. I now have some serenity". All the while I would think to myself, "Holy crap, there's not a one in here who seems to have any serenity, peace of mind. Most of them are so f'ed up, I don't want a single thing they have." And even if they have "clean time" (God forbid you slip and say sober; they crucify you for that), most of them don't have anything I want. So, to sum it up, Orange, thanks for the over abundance of AA material you have collected to expose it for what it is; a dangerous organization best left for the Jim Jones wannabe's. Once again I would ask if you have any similar information about NA and the so-called success rates of that, or is it about the same as AA? Cheers. A grateful "former" alcoholic (well, mainly because I don't drink anymore)
Hello Georgie,
Thank you for the letter and all of the compliments.
In the beginning, when I first got clean and sober, I went to both A.A. and N.A.
meetings, and the differences between them were hardly worth mentioning.
About the only differences that I saw were:
Otherwise, they are pretty much the same thing. The book of N.A., "How It Works",
is just a clone of the A.A. "Big Book". You can put the two books on
the table side by side, and go through them page by page, and they say the same
things in the same chapters. The N.A. book just changes the words
"alcohol" and "alcoholism" to "drugs" and "our addiction".
Otherwise, it's all the same goofy dogma based on Dr. Frank Buchman's cult religion
in the nineteen-thirties.
The recovery rates seem to be about the same. In other words, both organizations merely
take credit for the cases of spontaneous remission that are happening anyway,
and don't really cause anyone to get clean and sober.
The people who are success stories are the ones who decided to save their own lives,
and who then do it.
I don't have a lot of controlled studies that tested the recovery rates in N.A. groups and
rehab programs, but I do have one. One controlled study tested whether getting an N.A.
sponsor caused any improvement in the success rate. The answer was "no". The test is described
here:
Getting support from family, church, and friends sounds good.
If you want a group for some companionship and moral support, may I suggest SMART and SOS?
Here is the list of non-cult support groups and methods:
http://www.orange-papers.info/orange-alt_list.html
Have a good day now.
== Orange
Date: Sun, October 20, 2013 12:39 am (answered 21 October 2013) Hi Terrance, I was curious so I searched on google for this. Here is a link http://www.radioislam.org/historia/hitler/mkampf/pdf/ger.pdf Kurt
Ok wow, thank you Kurt.
I searched and searched with Google too, and never got the first volume.
This came up because
someone accused me of misquoting Adolf Hitler,
saying, "He never said that." Well, actually, because I was quoting
him in English, of course he never said that. The problem was just that
I was quoting one translation, and the other guy was quoting a different
translation, which had different wording for saying much the same thing.
The answer to such problems is to go to the original German, and quote
that.
So thanks for this link. Now I have more homework.
Have a good day now.
== Orange
Date: Mon, October 21, 2013 5:55 am (answered 21 October 2013) Please approve my registration. My user name is jimbattle. Thank you. I have also attached a pamphlet I wrote titled BEWARE OF DRUG COURT! Is there any way that I can get this posted on the forum? I am handing them out in front of the Drug Court in Phoenix AZ. I sent one to West Huddleston, CEO of the National Association of Drug Court Professionals (at his request) and he replied stating that he was "personally and professionally a great supporter of AA and NA" and that he found my pamphlet "offensive, inaccurate, and divisive. I can forward you a copy to post on the forum if you would like. I am also wondering if there is any way that forum members can come together to take protest these courts somehow and force them to get rid of the recovery/treatment religion or offer all religions to participants, including atheism. I am a Christian but I am against the courts endorsing the religion of their choice. I am willing to work with atheist and people of other religions to stop this injustice and violation of the constitution. We have enough research evidence and witnesses to win against drug courts. Please let me know if and how you think this might be done. I'm thinking that we should schedule a meeting of like-minded people. Jim B.
Hello Jim,
You are approved and authorized in the forum.
== Orange
22 October 2013
Okay Jim,
Now I can type a little more.
I am not at all surprised at the response you got from the CEO
of the National Association of Drug Court Professionals.
He said that he found the pamphlet "offensive, inaccurate, and divisive"?
That is the propaganda and debating trick called
The Prima Donna Ploy:
"I'm so offended."
Apparently, "A.A. unity" means that you cannot disagree with their misinformation.
That CEO of the National Association of Drug Court Professionals has a vested interest
in keeping things as they are. He makes a living off of the system as it is.
He might be out of a job if things are improved.
That is one of the big problems with the whole rehab and drug court system. The powers that be do not necessarily want what is best, and they don't want to improve the system. They want to keep their positions and their power and money. They will not voluntarily give up all of that. It takes court cases and lawsuits and superior judges' orders to force them to change their ways. Please do send me a copy of your pamphlet. And you will find many kindred spirits on the forum. Have a good day now. == Orange
[The next letter from Jim_B, including the pamphlet, is here.]
Date: Sun, October 20, 2013 9:06 am (answered 22 October 2013) Orangester, Just writing my yearly letter to congratulate you on 13 years of not only alcohol, but also tobacco. Way to go dude. One day after your "AA Birthday" (PUKE) is my own, 3 years for me. In those three years, I've put on the bodyweight I wanted and gotten back in shape. I found gainful employment, and inside this period of time have doubled my hourly wages. I do not say this to brag, at all. I do not have much money, I live a fairly Spartan life compared to lots of folks. But I've accomplished a lot in 3 years sober, and I'm very proud of the improvements I've made. "Recovering" (I say becoming an ex-addict) has to be about more than just not drinking, just not doing drugs. Stopping the destructive behavior is very good, it is a massive step, unquestionably. But it's a very reactionary sort of response. If one isn't endeavoring to improve their life, to do good things, instead of just not doing bad things, what's the fucking point? I wish you and your others readers the very best in continued abstinainence (or moderate drinking, as it is for some of your audience). I hope you're able to continue to scrape together the energy to keep answering the letters and keep putting the message out there. What you do is so important, and I hope the letters from folks like me, or those with truly awful AA stories who where enlightened by the Orange Papers are enough to keep your aware of this. Rock on Big T, Taylor
Hello Taylor,
Thank you for the letter and all of the compliments. And congratulations on your own recovery.
Life is just so much better when you aren't sick and dying, isn't it?
You are quite right that there is more to life, and there needs to be more to life, than just
not killing yourself.
Thanks for the encouragement to keep on doing the Orange Papers. It's good to hear now and then
that it might help somebody.
So have a good day now.
== Orange
** Dr. Wayne Dyer's instructions for how to become spiritual: ** ** You may believe that inspiration is something that arrives ** in some mysterious way that's beyond your control, ** but it's clearly best to rely exclusively on your decisions ** to act in ways that will intensify your awareness of Spirit. ** == Dr. Wayne W. Dyer, Inspiration Perpetual Flip Calendar, October 22. ** ** Notice how that contrasts with declaring yourself powerless, ** and denouncing self-reliance, and expecting Higher Power to ** take care of your will and your life for you, and ** give you a spiritual experience.
The idea that "the market", or "the free market" will solve all
of our problems and create the best possible world is sheer
insanity. For example, the free market says that the best drugs
to invest in are drugs that the patient will take for the rest
of his life, like Viagra or Levitra or Cialis or Lipitor or
Celebrex or Boneva.
The worst investments are drugs that quickly cure the disease,
because then the patient will stop taking the medicine, so there
is no long-term profit. So modern profit-hungry pharmaceutical
companies are not developing medicines like new antibiotics. In
the near future, you will be able to die quickly from a new
superbug germ that is resistant to all existing antibiotics, but
at least you will have low blood pressure, low cholestrol, and a
big hard-on as you die. That's the free market at work.
[ Link here =
http://www.orange-papers.info/orange-letters372.html#Jim_B2 ]
Date: Tue, October 22, 2013 6:47 pm (answered 25 October 2013) Orange, I hope the pamphlet is attached this time. Thanks for the insight on the Drug Court CEO. Jim B.
[Attachment:]
Hello Jim,
Thank you. Yes, this time it came through.
Well, you say a lot, and it's good stuff. So all that I can do is start at the top:
When the "counselor" asked for my opinion of the story,
I said, "I feel cheated. How come that never happened to me? Where is mine?"
The counselor told me that wasn't the "right reaction", that I should
have been frightened and horrified at what could have gone wrong. But the point
is, I wasn't frightened. I was amused. That is the kind of adventure
story that you will cherish in your old age. Such stories suggest an attitude of,
"You only live once, so live life with all of the gusto that you can."
That is just the opposite of a calm, sober, responsible lifestyle.
By the way, need we even mention the fact that it is illegal and unConstitutional to shove a
religious philosophy on prisoners?
This line of yours should be chiseled into the front doors of drug courts:
"So why do drug courts offer religions like AA and NA but will not offer Biblical Christianity?"
I have not read 12 Steps to Destruction, by Martin and Diedre Bobgan, but it sounds interesting.
I'll have to see if the library system can find me a copy.
By the way, you mentioned wanting to post this pamphlet on the forum. You don't need to worry about
getting it embedded there; it's in the Orange Papers now. You can refer to it with this URL:
Have a good day now.
== Orange
The age of full employment is over. The time when anyone who was
willing to work hard could graduate from high school and then get
a job in the local factory and keep that job for 47 years and have a successful
career and then retire at age 65 with a comfortable pension is long gone.
That idyllic time was merely a short-lived happy phase at the peak of
the industrial age, which coincided with the peak of the age of cheap and
plentiful oil. Between unpaid robots working 24 hours a day
in automated factories, and hundreds of millions of Chinese wage-slaves
working ultra-cheap and cranking out products by the billions, many
Americans just cannot get a good job in the town factory any more,
and they will not find such a job. The jobs just aren't there to be had,
and often, the factory is not there any more.
So, is there an answer? Yes. Simple. Make the jobs. Our government
must make jobs, because private enterprise isn't doing it, and
won't do it. Our ugly rundown cities need to be rebuilt and
beautified, and our bridges deperately need fixing before
they fall down, and our highways are cracked and full of potholes,
millions of families need better houses built for them,
our whole darned country needs fixing and improving and modernization,
while millions of able-bodied men and women sit around depressed
because they cannot get a job. There is plenty of work for them
to do. It's just the "job" system that is broken.
If we just wait for "free enterprise", or "the free market" to fix
our country — in other words, for some businessmen to do something
that they believe will make a big profit for them — then we will wait
forever.
There are no guaranteed mountains of profits to be earned by fixing
sewers or refurbishing old buildings or fixing the streets, highways, and bridges,
or upgrading the electrical system. Not like the profits that come
from creating a new iPad or iPhone. The creative and ambitious people
are not casting greedy gazes on blighted neighborhoods and bankrupt cities and
contemplating a great career fixing what is broken.
Our future isn't about profits, fixing America isn't
about profits, it's about quality of life, or whether our futures
will be just Hell on Earth. Yes, we will benefit from fixing what is
broken, but an investor may not profit from it enough to move him
to action.
In the mean time, while we wait for government to get its act
together (fat chance, right?), perhaps we can invent our own jobs
to improve the world. They probably won't pay anything, but
volunteerism beats just sitting around depressed and doing nothing.
There is much to do.
Still, volunteering will not pay the rent. We cannot just expect many
generous people to make great sacrifices to fix the problems of our
society for free. They need to be able to pay their bills, they need a paycheck,
so we need to get government back to taking care of the real problems of our
society.
HINT: We are in far more danger from urban blight than we are in danger from terrorists.
Terrorists strike once every 10 years; urban blight strikes every day.
The Orange Papers has recieved its first threat of a lawsuit.
A convicted murderer who skipped out on parole and who was a fugitive from justice
for 32 years, living under an alias and running a "treatment center" during that time,
doesn't like people reporting his story, and he is threatening a lawsuit for the Orange Papers
forum reporting his story.
J.R. Harris posted the news story in the forum, here:
And I recently received this letter:
And I responded:
Date: Mon, October 28, 2013 8:06 pm (answered 29 October 2013) Hello Orange, Hi Terry, I am not a California attorney, and this is in no way intended as legal advice or to substitute for the advice of licensed counsel in the relevant jurisdiction. That said, hypothetically speaking, if someone sued me in CA for the article published in the Orange Papers, I would hit him with an anti-SLAPP motion faster than Bill Wilson on a nubile newcomer: http://www.casp.net/california-anti-slapp-first-amendment-law-resources/statutes/ "The California anti-SLAPP law was enacted by the state Legislature almost twenty years ago to protect the petition and free speech rights of all Californians. Amendments have been made since that time to improve the law and provide stronger protection from meritless lawsuits to anyone who is SLAPPed in California. Code of Civil Procedure section 425.16 California's anti-SLAPP statute provides for a special motion to strike a complaint where the complaint arises from activity exercising the rights of petition and free speech. The statute was first enacted in 1992. Code of Civil Procedure section 425.17 This statute was enacted to correct abuse of the anti-SLAPP statute (CCP ยง 425.16). It prohibits anti-SLAPP motions in response to (1) public interest litigation when certain conditions are met, and (2) certain actions against a business that arise from commercial statements or conduct of the business. Code of Civil Procedure section 425.18 This statute was enacted primarily to facilitate the recovery by SLAPP victims of their damages through a SLAPPback (malicious prosecution action) against the SLAPP filers and their attorneys after the underlying SLAPP has been dismissed. It provides that the prevailing defendant attorney fee and immediate appeal provisions of the anti-SLAPP law do not apply to SLAPPbacks, and that an anti-SLAPP motion may not be filed against a SLAPPback by a party whose filing or maintenance of the prior cause of action from which the SLAPPback arises was illegal as a matter of law. Code of Civil Procedure sections 1987.1 and 1987.2 These statutes set forth a procedure for challenging subpoenas. The 2008 amendment to section 1987.1 allows any person to challenge subpoenas for "personally identifying information" sought in connection with an underlying lawsuit involving that person's exercise of free speech rights. This amendment also added section 1987.2(b), which provides that such a person who successfully challenges such a subpoena arising from a lawsuit filed in another state based on exercise of free speech rights on the Internet is entitled to recover his or her attorney fees. Civil Code section 47 Defines privileged publication or broadcast and immunizes participants in official proceedings or litigation against all tort actions except malicious prosecution. This statute figures prominently in many cases. Check back soon for links to some cases arising from this law."
Hello Pennywise,
Thank you very much for the tip. That's just the kind of hints
that I can use.
I know that this case is ridiculous. For a convicted murderer to cry
that his feelings were hurt by someone reporting his recapture is
downright absurd. I can only imagine the look on the judge's face
were such a case to ever come to trial.
While we are at it, I was looking for the "mafia lawyer" case in
New York (with Google), but couldn't find it. That case established
that when a lawyer participates in the planning and commission of
a crime, that he looses his standing as an officer of the court,
and looses his immunity, and becomes merely another participant
in the crime. The DOJ got that ruling while battling organized
crime in New York. Do you have any idea what case that was?
I think the case was something between 10 and 20 years ago.
Thanks again for the tip, and have a good day now.
== Orange
[The next letter from Pennywise is here.]
Last updated 12 November 2013. |
