|
I am still homeless, and still looking for a new place to live. I think I've found a good one, in
a rural town outside of Portland. Hopefully, I'll have a new home in a week or so.
What an experience it's been. I got to see a lot more of the homeless people, and get reminded of
what makes some of them tick (or not tick very well). More grist for the mill.
Ironically, I ended up in the very same homeless shelter as I was in 9 years earlier. The difference
is, this time around, it's a totally different me.
Nine years earlier, I was sick unto death from alcohol and tobacco addiction
— really in bad shape.
This time around, I have 9 years off of alcohol and tobacco, and am very healthy.
And that changes everything.
I'll get caught up on the email as soon as I can.
Have a good day.
== Orange
Okay, finally, I got a nice place to live, way out in the boondocks. I have moved out to a distant
suburb of Portland, Oregon called "Forest Grove".
It's way out there, in the middle of a lot of farmland.
I like that. The claustrophobic feeling of being in the middle of a big city was getting old.
And I'm now in the upper half of a little old cottage. The house is divided vertically into
two apartments, and I have the upstairs. I'm up in the attic, with slanted walls and
ceilings. It has certain charm to it. It's kind of rustic.
It's nice to get away from the sterile concrete and glass towers of apartment complexes.
Now I have the hassle of moving all of my stuff out of a storage locker and to my new home, and then spending the next month sorting everything out and getting the place wired for sound and computers... The neighborhood is nice. It's almost a return to the past, with well-groomed yards and lots of flower beds. My first impression of the town was the cars actually stopping so that I could cross a busy street. I wasn't expecting that. When was the last time that all of the cars stopped just so that you could cross the street? And I mean, there wasn't a stop sign or a traffic light; they just stopped because I was standing on the corner, waiting for a gap in the traffic. That was the moment I knew that I was in a small town.
Orange, Have u read this Big Book your self? as far as i can read they offer there experiences how they quit drinking, they do'nt ask for monney, or fame. No body tells u what to do, beleve in a power , come to beleve in truth, love, peace. But do'nt beleve anny more in this bad stuff u did before. Wy to proof AA is bad, save us for..... chanche the world and start with youre self.Looks like u proof it's a Part of NWO,or something even more bad!! Nobody is perfect, mabey some wrong thinkings in the beginning but after 70 years? I can't beleve it's desroying people on purpes. if u read good it's a selfhelping possibillitie u can use it or leave it. Minesota model bad!! Hope to hear of u Pierre
Hello Pierre,
Thanks for the letter. Yes, I have read the Big Book. And actually, it does tell
us what to do and what to believe, and it makes a lot of demands.
Chapter Four tells you that you must believe in Bill Wilson's religion. Agnosticism and
atheism are not acceptable.
Then, in Chapter Five, the Twelve Steps are more instructions and demands, and they certainly tell
you what to believe, like:
Then, later in the Big Book,
in Doctor Bob's Story, Dr. Bob declares that he feels sorry for you if you don't buy into their
goofy
Oxford Group religious beliefs:
The faults of A.A. are not just some mistakes made at the beginning 70
years ago. They are current problems, like
the sexual exploitation of minors,
telling sick people not to take their medications, and promoting
insane cult religion as a cure for the deadly problem of drug and alcohol abuse.
All of that is happening today.
Oh well, have a good day anyway.
== Orange
I have been sober five years. I enourage my sponsees to think for themselves and listen to their higher power to make decisions for themselves. I am not a counselor and I don't tell them to do anything but the steps and even that is optional. I am sorry you had a bad experience. I know people who had similar experiences and for the program of Alcoholics anonymous which is not the fellowship (meetings you go to are not the Program). My sponsor frequently told me not everything you hear in a meeting is AA. That is why they say principals before personalities. I encountered sponsors who tried to give me advice, medical, religious, and legal. I believe my higher power showed me what not to do in those cases. I now know not to give advice only experience, strength and hope. The program of AA has taught me alot some experiences are bad some good. I learned from both of them and it helps me to help others more effectively. I don't resent any bad advice I am an adult and can think for myself. I read AA literature and learn what AA is and what it is not. So I don't get confused when I hear something that is not AA in a meeting. The meetings are not AA in its entirety. If you are not working steps you are just going to meetings you technicly are not in the program of aa. 90 PTA meetings in 90 days will not make you a good parent. 90 aa meetins will not make you an AA member. My last sponsees higher power was superman. I never made fun of her it helped her stay sober because she prayed to whatever was out there to help her. She is still sober. I changed because I worked the steps. That is where the program is. I changed drastically and I have never been happier. The steps changed me I didnt change me. The people in AA helped but if I didn't do the steps eventually I would hate them because they are human and I need a connection to something greater than me. I work the steps and I feel compassion where I felt hatred. I worked all twelve steps and few in AA really do work all the steps and that is why people don't stay sober. Some don't want to do the ninth step. They don't want to give back a diamond ring to their ex because it was inherited. They don't want to give away money to those they stole from. I did those things and more. It was the absolute best thing I ever did. I went from homeless and unemployed to a happiness I have never known and it is because of the REAL program of AA. I wish you well. Peace be with you. .
Hello Greg,
Thanks for the letter, and congratulations on your sobriety.
I'm glad to hear that your life has improved. I would suggest that the
improvement in your life was caused by your abstaining from
drinking alcohol, rather than by any A.A. practices.
I notice that those who quit drinking around A.A. get credit for
"working a strong Program", while those who
do not quit drinking are accused of "not working the Program correctly".
Success in working "The Program" is judged by success in abstaining from drinking.
Claiming that those who did quit drinking "worked the Program" correctly is backwards logic — assuming
that the Steps caused the sobriety.
Whether someone is judged to be working the Program properly is determined largely by how much alcohol
they drink, not by how they "Work The Steps".
But how could it be otherwise? You don't know whether someone really confessed every dirty little secret
in his fourth and fifth Steps; you just assume that he did if he quits drinking, and you assume that he
didn't confess enough if he drinks more.
The same goes for making amends in Step Nine, and all of the rest of it.
The Twelve Steps are nothing but
some old cult practices
— not "spiritual principles" — that
Dr. Frank Buchman created in order to recruit and indoctrinate new
Oxford Group cult members. Those practices had nothing to do with quitting drinking, and everything to do with
guilt induction and creating feelings of fear, worthlessness, and powerlessness,
and getting people to quit thinking and accept irrational statements,
and making people amenable to surrender to the cult.
The Twelve Steps do not cause people to quit drinking. Period. They far better for causing divorces and
suicides.
When the A.A. program was properly tested,
it was proven to be a failure
that actually increased the rates of binge drinking and death.
By the way, using Superman as one's God and spiritual guide
— one's "Higher Power" —
is obviously insane (not to mention grossly heretical and anti-Christian).
You can see that. How is a fictitious comic book character
supposed to give proper spiritual guidance during the Step Eleven spook sessions and séances?
How is Superman supposed to answer prayers?
How is Superman supposed to take care of her will and her life for her?
Superman isn't "out there to help her".
It is a mistake to assume that such deluded nonsensical superstitious
practices really help people to stay sober.
But in your value system, praying to Superman is apparently okay as long
as you don't drink while you do it.
Apparently, almost anything is okay as long as you don't drink while you do it.
Oh, and claiming that what you see in an A.A. meeting is not "the
real A.A." is just a dodge. The truth is, everything that
happens in an A.A. meeting is "the real A.A.". Whatever is done
to the newcomers, whatever they are taught or told, whatever wisdom or
stupidity is shared in meetings,
however
the newcomers may be exploited — it is all the
real A.A. There is no other A.A. than what actually exists in the ordinary day-to-day meetings
and in the commonplace sponsor-sponsee relationships. While you may have some ideas about a perfect
ideal A.A. program that exists in some dream world, the ordinary day-to-day A.A. is what the
sick alcoholics actually get when they go to an A.A. meeting to see if it can help.
While you are formulating your ideas of the perfect A.A. program, remember that Bill Wilson
wrote on page 59 of the Big Book that the 12 Steps were only "suggested as a program
of recovery", not that they were the real program, or the required program.
(Now I know that Bill Wilson later declared that you were signing your
own death warrant if you didn't work his Steps right, but that was
just another bait-and-switch trick.)
Oh well, have a good day anyway.
== Orange
Hi Orange, I had a friend at rehab, about my age, who has a small construction company. We were talking about the legal limit and how many drinks it took to get there. We both conceded that a 4 pint happy hour definitely put you over the limit, even though if you've been drinking for 10 years or so, weighed enough, ate something, etc., you weren't really all that impaired, but you were certainly illegal. I said I was lucky I got away with it all those years, without getting pulled over. He told me he wasn't so lucky, being in his car to and from job sites, over the years he got pulled over for a variety of reasons having nothing to do with drinking, and wound up with a couple of DUIs. Then, in all seriousness, he came up with this statement. "I don't have a drinking problem, I have a drinking and driving problem." I laughed about that one for a week, but HE was serious.
Take care,
Hi RJ,
Thanks for the story. Yes, the human mind is funny, isn't it? The way that people can
quibble over little details, and avoid the real issue...
"The cirrhosis and
the memory loss wouldn't be a problem at all if it weren't for those pesky cops giving
me tickets for driving drunk..."
Oh well, have a good day anyway.
== Orange
Hi A. Orange, Heavily involved an an AA group, I found myself bothered by many questions ad nauseam. I'd be asking my questions, constantly getting cut off by my sponsor mid-sentence with him saying that I had a general "trusting problem" and that if I'd keep up this behavior, I'd be proving that I'm "uncoachable" (and eventually I'd be removed from the group). I was told that I couldn't be helped till I opened my mind to "another" type of thinking (or the lack thereof). I had to completely surrender my trust and my life to AA in order to find their so called "freedom". While I was not very happy with this approach, I decided to go along for the (90 day) ride. Halfway through Step 4 while putting my resentments down on paper, I decided that in my absolute honesty, I'd have to take a hard look at the program and at my sponsor and draw out any resentments that may exist. If this was about honesty, certainly they could not be excluded! I began drafting a list, putting my dislikes down on paper, and with time, it kept getting longer and longer. Everything I've written about AA in my Step 4 worksheets I found to resonate with what you write here on your site! While you've expanded on each item, I noticed that my 10 page list greatly resembles your own! Short in comparison, it's really much the same! I didn't find your site because I was looking for it. Actually, I spoke to my sponsor just today (I've left the program for a week or so) about rejoining and submitting my Step 4 worksheet. I temporarily disregarded my "issue" with the program and decided to finish the last 3 weeks. It was that a friend of mine sent me a link to one of your articles about Ford and my attention drifted to your scrutiny on AA. That really caught my eye! I took the time to read through your entire 100 items (including many of the links on the pages) and I was amazed by your presentation of what AA's really all about. Earlier today I discussed some of my resentments towards AA on the phone with my sponsor, and I wasn't shocked by his reaction when he responded in a very hostile kind of way — putting me down, making me feel guilty, unworthy, that I'm getting in the way of my own success, and just plain victimizing me! This isn't going to happen any longer, now that I'm leaving the program! Thank you for speaking the truth! I was thinking about this heavily for the past week or so, and I'm happy to have resolved this issue. In my books AA is a dangerous hardcore cult that we should distance ourselves from to the greatest measure! In the group that I attend we share what we call "A&W moments" (Awe and Wonder moments, where we've felt and experienced G-d and His guidance in our daily lives). The purpose of this is to increase our G-d awareness, so we do this exercise daily. While I've got no problem speaking up in the group and asking my questions, I've always found it difficult to spot those A&W moments and than to share them with the others. I've got to admit that I was playing with this idea in my head: After reading your exposure on AA, I thought I'd attend tomorrows meeting to tell them about the divine providence that lead me here! There I was, thinking about all this stuff, and than somehow I was divinely led here to where you dispelled all my doubt about AA and its cultishness! And just at the right time too! What an A&W moment!
Best of luck,
Hi Tomim,
Thanks for the story, and thanks for the laugh.
I'm glad to hear that you escaped with your mind intact.
So have a good day now.
== Orange
Hi Orange, Thank you for the recent letters posted. I appreciated especially your reply to Ric D on 12/21. During my last days with AA, I challenged the blustering old timer's with questions on Bill's sobriety date, the sobriety dates of old timers, and why Bill's fifth step was never published. Bill, the prolific writer, (or so we are told), didn't publish his glorious 5th step? I appreciate your ongoing efforts, and hope the site continues to see traffic. Wishing you the best of New Year's. My best, Beth
Hi Beth,
Thanks for the thanks and the good wishes. And the same to you.
Yes, Bill Wilson's sobriety date and lack of birthday parties
present interesting questions, don't they? I'm glad to hear that you were sticking the
old-timers with those questions. When you think about it, there are a lot of things
about A.A. that are just assumed, with no supporting evidence — like the A.A. success
rate, and how many millions of alcoholics A.A. is supposedly keeping sober,
and Bill Wilson's alleged "many years of sobriety".
You would think that there should be a lot of historical
photographs showing Bill Wilson and his followers grandly celebrating Bill's fifth, tenth,
fifteenth, twentieth, twenty-fifth, thirtieth and thirty-fifth
anniversaries. But I've never seen a single one.
I never even heard about a birthday party for Bill, ever. Not one, not ever.
Everybody else gets birthday parties with lots of cheering and clapping, but not Bill Wilson.
Why is that?
Bill Wilson allegedly quit drinking in December of 1934, and he died January 24, 1971, so
he supposedly had more than 35 years of sobriety before he died. You would think that the
other A.A. members would have at least staged a grand party for old Bill at 30 or 35 years,
wouldn't you?
But they didn't, did they?
Funny you should mention traffic. The number of visitors just peaked again in March, and
the web site got over a million hits last month — well over, like 1,125,000.
I have no idea why. And the same thing happened last year too — over a million
hits in March. I don't know what is special about the month of March.
But it's nice to see the traffic anyway.
Have a good day.
== Orange
Came across an interesting site, AnonPress, AA FAQ: Under "Did Bill W. have a mistress?" they write:
You can read the will at Even with the disclaimer, it seems like a mighty concession.
Hello Ray,
It's good to hear from you again. Thanks for the tip.
Any mention of my web site on a pro-A.A. web site does seem like a big concession.
The true believers are generally so eager to prevent any mention of the Orange Papers, anywhere,
that they even deleted all mentions of the O.P. from the bibliography of the Wikipedia
web page on the Oxford Group, in spite of the fact that I did most of the research
on which the page is based. (I just noticed that the other day.)
I found that last line funny — in particular,
the phrase "unbalanced opinion". As if all opinions
are supposed to be balanced. Facts should be fair and balanced and true and honest,
and then opinions should result from the preponderance of the facts.
Opinions don't have to be balanced, and often, shouldn't be.
It depends on the facts.
I'm afraid that the cowardly practices of the evening news programs are contaminating
the very ways in which we think and collect information.
The evening news programs always try to balance the opinions,
so that they can't be accused of being biased. They rarely dare to take a strong stand on either
side of any issue.
So they often give you an expert on the subject expressing one opinion,
followed by Joe Couchpotato, who has real strong opposing opinions on the subject after he gets
a few beers into him.
And the two opinions are supposed to get equal weight.
Then the debate just degenerates into an
Escape Via Relativism.
Oh well, have a good day, anyway.
== Orange
[The story of Carmen continues here.]
Hi orange, I often wondered if back before 1935 and Bill W. and the gang... when alcoholics were called "drunkards", if the same number of them stopped during the Temperance movement in the Washingtonian groups of that day... bet ya there were as many or more and yet AA members tell us that before AA, these drunkards were simply "locked up" in asylums for the rest of their lives. Although I'm sure there are no stats about the Washingtonians they certainly had no Steps, it was just a somewhat religious thing... how can AAers re-define history to say that the boozers before 1935 didn't stand a chance: not to say the Washingtonians did do any better, but drunks were going there instead of asylums. I guess it's the same as them never mentioning Frank Buchman... true history does not suit them so they ignore or alter it as they please. Anyway, i have 3 days (again), and i will depend on the truth to keep me sober... Happy New Year, and a good day too.
Hi Ted,
Thanks for the letter. Sorry to take so long to answer, but I've been busy
being homeless and finding a new place to live. I hope you are doing well.
I agree that we probably had about the same numbers of people quitting drinking
back in the days of the Washingtonians. From what I have heard, they were very
successful and popular for a while. I think I read somewhere that
Abraham Lincoln had a lot of praise for them.
Apparently, their biggest problem was just that they got involved in too many other causes, like
abolition of slavery, at the same time, and watered down their core purpose,
and they lost their focus, and eventually, the Washingtonians broke up into splinter
groups that were concerned with other issues.
Still, I don't think that human nature or human thirsts have changed any in the
last 150 years, so there were probably just as many drunkards and tea-totallers
then as now. And I'm sure that they had about the same recovery rates, too.
Speaking of which, it turns out that even monkeys have the same numbers of drunkards
and tea-totallers as people do now.
Check out this video that shows
alcoholic monkeys, here.
I find it amazing that even monkeys have the same percentages of drunkards and
abstainers in their population as people do.
That points to some genetic factors that have not changed
in a few million years. Never mind 150 years — things haven't changed in millions of years.
Have a good day and a good life.
== Orange
I would love to read the entire book. Please let me know how I can get the entire text.
Hi Paula,
The entire text is online now. That's all there is; there is no dead-tree edition now.
You can download the entire book/web site by downloading a set of zipfiles.
The files are listed on the first menu page,
here,
and the process for making a CD of the web site is described
here.
Have a good day.
== Orange
Hello Orange, AA has been be-deviling me for over two decades now, from the first time I sought help on my own by going to an open AA meeting in 1989. What I saw overwhelmed my normally fine-tuned BS detector to the point where all it could say was "DOES NOT COMPUTE". Needless to say, I walked out and never went back. Again in 1995, when my company's cheap-skate EAP wanted to send me directly to AA instead of treatment. Again in 1999 when my drinking got so bad I had to check myself into treatment, and the treatment center lied to me and assured me they don't believe in "twelve step". They kept their promise until the very end of a six-week Intensive Outpatient Program, when we were discharged and our "aftercare" instructions were to attend at least three twelve-step meetings a week. Somewhere between then and my next encounter with the twelve-step empire I was diagnosed with Bipolar Disorder and put on a regimen of meds that level out my emotions so well I have no need to drink. Then in 2007 the therapist I had been seeing left for greener pastures and, by coincidence, I was assigned to another therapist who was also an "addictions expert". The first thing he asked me was, "Have you ever been in treatment for alcohol abuse?" I told the truth, and the old boy just about fell out of his chair when he found out I hadn't been to an AA meeting for almost ten years. I fired him, but he continued writing me letters, trying in vain to save me from alcoholic doom. At this point I had to ask, what's up with this @#*^%(&^%* dinosaur of a program, and how come nothing has changed in 20 years? My quest for the truth summed up in a nutshell: (From Chas. Bufe's AA: Cult or Cure, Preface to Second Edition)
AA has taken pains to ensure that it's the only game in town. AA members have set up "educational" and "medical" front groups to promote AA and its ideology (especially the 12 steps and the disease concept of alcoholism). In addition to promoting AA and its concepts, the hidden AA members (in "professional" guise) in these front groups have repeatedly and viciously attacked critics of AA and researchers who've published findings contrary to AA dogma. They have also attempted to suppress alternative alcoholism treatment approaches — and to a great extent they've succeeded. Kind of like the guy who invented a carburetor that gets 100 miles per gallon, only to disappear, done in by the hand of the oil industry. (The story of how Mark and Linda Sobell's controlled drinking program was brutally suppressed confirms this). I believe the Internet has made it no longer possible to suppress the truth about this evil cartel, and crusaders like yourself will help organize opposition and finally dislodge this monster from power. Thank you for making this your life's work Ron W.
Hello Ron,
Thanks for the compliments. And I couldn't agree more about A.A. trying to
suppress all competition and monopolize the field.
But I think their days are numbered. More and more
people are wising up and learning the truth. That's the kiss of death for a cult
that relies on mythology, falsehoods, and withheld information.
I am reminded of a remark by Mark Willenbring, director of treatment and
recovery research at the National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism,
who recently said that A.A.'s approach was wrong — "inconsistent with the facts".
And that is a high-ranking government official who controls a lot of money.
There is a link to an article
here.
With things like that happening, A.A. is having a hard time suppressing the truth.
The times they are a'changin'.
Have a good day.
== Orange
Hi Mr Orange, love your site... I am writing to you to tell you about an important corrollary about addiction which you may or may not know about. Because your website is so large, I haven't had time to go throught the whole thing yet, so if this information is already on your site, please forgive the redundancy. That corollary is the neurochemical dopamine cycle of addiction, and how cults use this addiction cycle to gain members and keep them hooked. Intense experiences, from whatever source (alcohol or other drugs, orgasmic sex, intense "love bombing" and other cult initiation techniques) cause a spike of the neurotransmitter dopamine to be released in the brain. This automatically causes dopamine to fall too low as the brain seeks homeostasis, which causes the person to crave a way to bring their dopamine levels back up, so they seek another intense experience, which causes dopamine to fall too low and so on and so forth, in a vicious cycle that we call addiction. If you go to a website called "Reuniting.info", you will see how the dopamine cycle, with its concomitant high prolactin levels, high cortisol levels and low oxytocin levels, keep people hooked into their chosen addiction, no matter what that addiction is. "Reuniting" does not mention cults, but it is easy to put two and two together, because every cult in history uses intense experiences as a part of their "initiation" process, and most, if not all, cults also have non-orgasmic ("sacred") sexuality as part or all of their innermost "occult" teachings. I am not affiliated with "Reuniting" in any way. I stumbled upon your site after getting mixed up with an online cult. I got away from the cult for about 7 months, but then went back because unknown to myself, I had actually become addicted to the cult from the intense experiences of their initiation practices. I recently stumbled upon the "Reuniting" website, and the lightbulb just went off in my mind about how cults instigate and then utilize dopamine swings to keep people hooked, or to bring them back if they leave. But thanks to "Reuniting", I now have the ammunition I need to get away from the cult and stay away from it. Doing the "Karezza" techinique for just a few days already has me feeling steadier and more free, and I am not logging on and posting or anything at the online cult website. So I'd like to say a big THANKYOU to you for getting me started on getting away from that filthy cult, and to add the info about the "Reuniting" website. Thanks bunches. Sincerely, Jill H
Hello Jill,
Thank you for the letter. I'm glad to hear that you escaped from that cult and
are feeling better.
And thanks for the information. That sounds fascinating. I'll have
to check it out. And it makes perfect sense. It is kind of humbling and
disconcerting to see how much we are all just chasing a dopamine rush.
But that's what feels good.
(Also think about the thrill junkies — sky-divers, BASE jumpers, radical snow-boarders and
skiers, and bungee jumpers... All just getting another extreme emotional experience.)
Oh well, have a good day.
== Orange
Hey, Terry, I don't know if you already have this one on file or not, but I cut it from a post by noted AA historical interpreter and Orange critic Art S. In denying AA's religiosity, Bill goes straight into a description of its process of conversion upon indoctrinees. Also of note is the mention of that one former member of the American Atheist Society, and the 20,000 other atheists who had come to see the light through AA by 1949. At that rate, atheism should have ceased to exist years ago. Hope your move is going smoothly. Mike Bill W's statements to the American Psychiatric Association 105th Annual Meeting Montreal, Quebec, May 1949 noted that:
"Alcoholics Anonymous is not a religious organization; there is no dogma. The one theological proposition is a "Power greater than one's self." Even this concept is forced on no one. The newcomer merely immerses himself in our society and tries the program as best he can. Left alone, he will surely report the gradual onset of a transforming experience, call it what he may. Observers once thought A.A. could appeal only to the religiously susceptible. Yet our membership includes a former member of the American Atheist Society and about 20,000 others almost as tough. The dying can become remarkably open-minded.
Hi Mike,
Thanks for the quote. I didn't have that one. That is very revealing. Bill openly
admits that religious conversion is the goal of A.A.
And guess what is very interesting:
Bill Wilson was lying about the "American Atheist Society".
There was no such organization in existence. But Bill Wilson made the same claim in
Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions,
saying that A.A. had a former vice-president of the "American Atheist Society"
as a true believer now.
Somebody researched that claim about three years ago, and discovered that the
atheists' organization never existed. The story is a complete fabrication.
Read about it here.
I also notice how Bill Wilson rationalized his dishonesty in hiding the religious conversion
practices of A.A. — people "really dread being God-bitten." Not that people actually
wanted the quit-drinking program that was advertised,
rather than to get converted to somebody's cult religion...
It's all the fault of those defective people that Bill can't tell the truth.
Have a good day.
== Orange
Dear Agent, I've been looking at your site for about 3 months now, and have decided that after 12—13yrs of on/off AA membership, that I am a ex-drug addict, and a normal drinker. People at meetings can't accept my new (self) diagnosis. Oh well. I even got a letter published in the local paper last week, saying if numerous State and Federal Courts agree AA is a religion, and/or promotes religious activites what is my home city doing letting said activities go on in a municipal building. My three closest AA friends are totally opposed to my new life of social drinking. I figure if I stay away from the dope, I'm doing OK. How am I ever going to make up for all those thousands of hours at meetings? I do believe in Jesus, however I do not believe in the Higher Power as some sort of Spiritual Santa Claus that AA promotes, or the "learned helplessness" that they push. I also believe if a person is "insane" they should seek professional help, instead of thinking God may restore them to sanity. I have stopped attending meetings in the last 2 wks. Guess I'm going to take up my walking program again to kill time and get healthier again. Maybe more time at the library, just need to pay off that fine. I enjoy your site, the time you have dedicated to it, and the research you have done. Thanks Mr. Orange and have a good day. Ross M
Hi Ross,
Thanks for the letter, and I'm glad to hear that you are doing well.
You sound like you have things figured out pretty well, so have a good life now.
And have a good day.
== Orange
Thanks for telling the truth about AA. It is nothing more than a collection of deviants and predators, the weak and the cleverly corrupt. I believe AA to be not only be a valid danger but also a clever multi-level marketing scheme. Jeff
Hi Jeff,
Thanks for the thanks. I don't know about the MLM thing, because A.A. is not
primarily a marketing organization, but I do notice how a bunch of
self-appointed A.A. superstars
are setting themselves up in business in a manner similar to
the Emerald and Diamond distributors of Amway.
Have a good day.
== Orange
I am currently assessing at a variety of favorable to unfavorable documents, reviews, personal experiences as they relate to AA. Someone was kind enough to forward your link to me and I wish I had enough time in the day to read through all your materials. I quit drinking years ago because I needed to change my life. I didn't use any program or treatment and I was in pretty bad shape. My wife on the other hand frequents AA meetings and it feels like at any point in time she can be pulled under the wing of a complete moron leading to stress in the home. The information in your pages confirms my worst fears about the culture of AA. After accompanying her to a few meetings it was easy to see the overarching cult theme. On a good note the positive aspect of the human element has, every now and again, presented itself and worked towards a neutral balance in these meetings. Overall my wife is doing well and staying sober, I don't credit the program, I credit the occasional good person she happens to run into for advice. Unfortunately they beat everyone into submission over time and the blind will eventually lead the blind. Their blind faith in AA disturbs me. Cutting my babble short, do you have any advice for someone who desires to protect their loved ones from the influence/adverse effects of AA? At one point my wife would talk to these folks about how I was able to cut free without assistance and they managed to convince her that I needed AA or Alanon. She leaned on me real hard for a while and then regained her original beliefs about me. I'm nervous because the influence of the group for one hour a day can't possibly match that of my own. When actors and musicians began to effect the diets of my children I shut the TV off. This is a little more complex because I'm directly involved. To make it worse, it was part of her culture growing up. Her mother was part of the program and this has become a norm for her. I'm attempting to ride it out and allow time to work in our favor but I'm getting a little nervous. Thanks for the extensive effort you put into this content. I wish you well. Pete
Hello Pete,
Thank you for the letter. Sorry to take so long to answer — I've been homeless and looking
for a good place to live. I found one, so now I'm back to answering letters.
Your description of A.A. and the A.A. experience sounds very accurate.
You seem to understand the situation very well.
One line that stood out was,
"...the influence of the group for one hour a day can't possibly match that of my own."
I have received many letters telling how the A.A. group gradually split up the marriage.
These four stand out:
(The whole list of A.A. horror stories
is here.)
Now, for your question about how to
protect your loved one from the influence/adverse effects of AA...
Wow. I wish I had a simple, easy answer, but I don't. But I do have some pieces of advice.
The first thing that occurs to me is that you have the same problem as anyone who is trying
to get a loved one out of a cult. Steven Hassan wrote two books about that, called
Releasing the Bonds:
Empowering People to Think for Themselves, and
Combatting Cult Mind Control.
I have mentioned them before, several times, and described some useful things in them, and
the list of those descriptions is
here.
Obviously, you can't just tell her to quit the cult, because she grew up in it and is
really attached to it. But you can work slowly, gradually introducing her to information
about the failures and flaws and history of A.A. You can also use Hassan's trick of criticizing the
faults of another cult which just happens to have the same problems as A.A. Where she
might resist criticism of A.A., she might be quite ready to see the same defect in a different
cult. Then she can connect the dots in her own mind later.
So you can talk about the Moonies or Scientology or
the Oxford Group
or some other cult, and notice how they falsify their history,
and glorify the founder to a ridiculous degree, and make grandiose claims of improving the
minds or souls of their members,
and claim to have The Only Way,
and claim to have a guaranteed ticket to Heaven (or its equivalent),
and so on...
I would also emphasize and stress the importance of the truth. Every so often, when she
describes A.A., I would
ask, "But what is the real truth? What is really going on there? How does that really work?"
The truth is the deadly enemy of a cult. That's the one thing they don't want to talk about.
They want to just keep on parrotting their mythology. When the whole truth is apparent,
cults lose members fast.
But as far as really protecting her from the bad influences of A.A., wow, that is tough.
The only sure-fire method that I know of is, just have nothing to do with A.A. any more.
But she doesn't want to hear that. So you have to just keep inserting the truth into the
conversation, and counter-acting the misinformation, and keep working at it.
Good luck. And have a good life, and a good day.
== Orange
Dear Sir, I have enjoyed reading your observations on AA and it's true purpose. I have not read all of it but I wondering if you had any suggestions for alternate ways or methods for sobriety. I have tried abstinence with little or no success. I'm looking for a program that can help me "cope" with the things that cause me to drink. Thanks you for your time and suggestions. Carlos
Hello Carlos,
Thanks for the letter. Sorry to take so long to answer. I've been homeless and looking
for a better place to live. Now I've found one.
For moderating and coping with the things that cause you to drink,
one thing that comes to mind is SMART. SMART is specifically designed to help you to
cope with your emotions and stop driving yourself crazy with irrational thoughts.
"Flipping out" is a common cause of people going back to drinking.
You don't have to be crazy to flip out; just having the pressures build up and then
believing some irrational thought, and taking it too seriously, can do it.
The idea of just getting drunk starts looking real good.
About abstinence versus moderation, my attitude is "Whatever works for you".
Some people can moderate, some can't. If moderation works for you, then great.
Many years ago, the famous government think tank,
the Rand Corporation, found
that the successful people who had stopped drinking self-destructively
were evenly split between total abstinence and tapering off into
moderate, controlled, drinking.
So total abstinence is not the only way.
It all depends on the individual person.
Our problem is to figure out which half we are in.
Can we drink moderately and keep it under control?
I never could, but lots of other people do.
It's about time for me to reprint the list of alternatives again, so here it is.
Check these out: (Ignore the Women For Sobriety one.) Especially look at SMART and
HAMS.
Have a good day and a good life.
== Orange
Last updated 16 July 2013. |
