|
Date: Sun, December 30, 2012 5:25 pm (Answered 1 January 2013) Marcus M. commented on William R. E.'s post in Orange Papers. I have heard many times if you are taking meds from anti depressants to suboxone that you are not really sober. I believe the dry drunk concept is behind much of that. For some anyone that finds another way to quit is a dry drunk. Which is utterly ridiculous. I find the dry drunk concept rather narcissistic along with some of the other things going on.
Date: Sat, December 29, 2012 5:21 pm (Answered 1 January 2013) Marcus M. posted in Orange Papers What is AA? This question was posted not long ago by someone who had a whole lot of friends that were AA members. I find it a rather telling point that someone would join a group that is about a piece of work that is some would say critical of AA. I could understand someone who knows what AA is coming here and trying to defend AA or debate any of the information included in the orange papers. But why would someone that knows what AA is and I have yet to meet anyone that does not know what AA come here and ask a question that I believe he already had the answer to? But regardless of that, what is AA (alcoholics anonymous)? AA claims it is a fellowship dedicated to helping people stop drinking. Many of its members would claim this also. Some claim it is a religion. Some claim it is a cult. The Orange Papers points out that AA practices many cult practices. One such practice is to assign a sponsor to the new member and there are groups that do assign sponsors but I believe most do not assign sponsors and merely suggest them. AA is many different things to many different people. I believe or view AA as a religion that has a goal of converting people to god or superstitious beliefs. One of the suggestions is no drinking although they will accept someone who slips and drinks. I also believe that within the institution of AA there is an air of cultness to many. Within any religion you will find fundamentalist thinkers and in my opinion these are the people with the greatest degree of cult like thinking and practices. Then there are people who go only for the social aspect. I know a lot of people that would come only on saturday to a rather large meeting that was popular with people that had been around AA for a long time. Some of which were around for better than 30 years. They went there to see their friends and make a social contact with others. As I said AA is many different things to many different people including the people who go to AA meetings.
Hello Marcus,
I can only agree.
Have a good day now, and a happy 2013.
== Orange
Date: Sat, December 29, 2012 2:23 pm (Answered 1 January 2013)
Carlos G.
[local mirror here:
Huckaby_AA_and_Celebrate_Recovery.mp4]
Thanks for the link. Now that is very interesting.
Alas, that interview is loaded with mistakes. The very first sentence said that A.A. was based on
"a Christian movement" of Rev. Frank Buchman, "the Oxford Groups". That is wrong. The Oxford Groups
were not Christian or Biblical. Oh sure, they gave plenty of lip service to Christianity,
and yammered the words "Christ" and "Christianity" a lot for the sake of appearances,
but
Dr. Frank Buchman's cult religion was
heretical and
occult,
and pro-Nazi, and
contemporary ministers and priests said so.
Dr. Buchman insisted that when
his followers conducted séances
and heard the Voice of God,
that their revelations were just as authoritive as any stories in the Bible.
So how is that "Biblical"? (Hint: It isn't —
it's occult practices that are condemned in the Bible.)
The Oxford Group was just another obnoxious cult religion, not a wonderful "Christian movement".
Unfortunately, both Rev. Huckaby and the TV host "Matt" made the
standard mistakes of Alcoholics Anonymous, including
Two previous letters that just came in
are from a woman who was sexually molested for years when she was
a little girl.
(Look here and
here)
Now, she has a lot of mental problems. She also got into trouble with alcohol, trying
to use it to self-medicate and fix herself.
Does anyone seriously want to tell her that she has sinned, and that
confessing her sins, and "accepting responsibility for her sins" will cure all of her problems?
That would really be some vicious guilt-inducing superstition and quackery.
Obviously, a guilt-inducing religious routine is totally inappropriate for cases like hers.
In fact, I'm hard-pressed to think of any cases where it would be appropriate.
Need I say that if someone is really a Christian, he won't torture suffering people like that?
Again, we see Steppers trying to practice medicine without a license. Neither A.A. sponsors, nor
Rev. Huckaby, nor Matt, is a licensed psychiatrist, trained and qualified to treat mental
problems like childhood sexual abuse and PTSD.
To claim that "taking responsibility for your sins" is
a cure-all
for substance-abuse problems
is so barbaric and simple-minded and primitive that it is positively Medieval.
Also, the Twelve Steps are grossly heretical and unChristian. See
The Heresy of the Twelve Steps.
The 12 Steps resemble
selling your soul to Devil
in trade for sobriety, much more than they resemble Christianity.
The 12 Steps are really just Dr. Frank Buchman's cult recruiting and indoctrination practices,
not any spiritual principles.
Read Jesus Christ's Sermon on the Mount, and then read the Twelve Steps, and you will see that
there is not a speck of similarity between the two teachings.
I've been joking for some time now about a mythical 12-Step recovery group called
"Satanists For Sobriety" (SFS), where there is no doubt about who
"Higher Power" really is, but it isn't entirely a joke. Rev. Huckaby
should really think long and hard about how easy it is to substitute Satan into
the Steps where they say "any Higher Power of our understanding."
And if the A.A. "G.O.D." can be a "Group Of Drunks", and the
Narcotics Anonymous "G.O.D." can be a "Group Of Dopers", why
can't "G.O.D." be a "Group Of Devils"?
Perhaps Rev. Huckaby and Matt should think about that while they bemoan the fact
that Jesus Christ isn't mentioned anywhere in the Steps,
or anywhere
in the Alcoholics Anonymous "Big Book", either.
The whole idea that "Celebrate Recovery" can adapt the 12-Step program
and make it into "Christian Recovery" is a giant mistake,
like trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. If the A.A. 12-Step program is
really so "Biblical" and "Christian" to start with, why is
it necessary to change it to make it compatible with Christianity?
Again, Rev. Huckaby started off by declaring that A.A. began as a Christian movement, but
a minute into the show, the announcer Matt declared:
"There's a number of programs out there right now that are trying to get the Jesus back into it."
Oh really? What is this
double-talk
nonsense? It's "thoroughly Christian, but we need to get the Jesus back into it"?
Thanks again for the link. Have a good day now, and a happy 2013.
== Orange
Date: Fri, January 4, 2013 6:11 am thanks for your imput very illuminating
Carlos G.
Date: Thu, January 3, 2013 10:04 am (Answered 5 January 2013) I'm writing this except that I wanted to share because sometimes I feel like a voice in the desert. The AA police are always after me. LOL I have been sober for 7 years now and I don't drink because my self honesty tells me what will happen if I do. Been there too many times. AA is, to me, somewhat of a double edge sword. Did it point me toward a path to sobriety? Yes, but I had to walk the path. Does it's religious members and god talk drive people out the door? I know it does. Is there something to be learned there? Yes, for sure. I'm an atheist and find that while AA has some very good ideas, just as the bible does, there is a lot of chaff to separate. For myself, personality change was the real key to sobriety and by working the steps of the program (at least my own interpretation of them) personality change did take place. In the Appendices of the book Alcoholics Anonymous the reading "Spiritual Experience" uses the terms "Religious Experience" and "Personality Changes" interchangeably. I think this is key. I have long held the belief that AA is not about God or religion but rather personality changes that come through practicingAA principals. This leads to the ability to accept life the way it is; coping comfortably with reality; becoming wise. Once this occurs, alcohol is no longer need to cope with daily life. Of course I remain an alcoholic but the temptations to pick up a drink are few and weak. The "power greater than ones self" spoken about in AA is simply reality, over which we have little control and thus is more powerful than we are. We can control our own thoughts, words and deeds and this is what the AA principals can teach us ho to do in constructive ways. Do I attend AA meetings? Yes, once a week usually. But have gone much longer between them. I do find a sense of comaraderie there. Is AA a way of life for me? Practicing some of the AA principals is but my social life is not one of AA functions and my closest friends are not in AA. I beleive the goal is to learn to live in reality, not to hide form the world. Dave K.
Hello Dave,
Thanks for the letter.
You are assuming that the "personality changes" that are caused by the A.A. program and
the 12 Steps are good. All of the evidence says that those practices are very harmful and
drive people to relapse,
binge drinking, and
death.
The Twelve Steps are Dr. Frank Buchman's cult religion recruiting and indoctrination practices,
not anything good.
Bill Wilson simply copied them
from Frank Buchman's Oxford Groups.
Note that the Twelve Steps are actually almost identical to the Chinese Communist brainwashing practices.
Compare the 12 Steps to
Dr. Robert Jay Lifton's description of Chinese Communist brainwashing, here.
It's wonderful that you managed to rewrite the Steps and change them and
turn them into a program of reflection
and self-examination, and then you changed your own behavior for the better.
Congratulations on your sobriety. But that isn't what happens with most people when they do
the A.A. program.
In fact, the Steps didn't even work on Bill Wilson. He found that hallucinogenic drugs like
belladonna and
LSD and leuco-adrenochrome
were much better at inducing personality changes in him. He spent years in A.A. taking drugs,
not doing the 12 Steps.
If you want some mental practices that can induce personality changes without the guilt and trauma
and psychological damage of the 12 Steps, may I recommend
SMART or SOS? (Click on that link.)
By the way, I also don't drink alcohol — I have 12 years of sobriety now —
and my "self-honesty" also tells me what will happen if I drink more alcohol.
Please note that such a realistic attitude comes from years of experience
with repeatedly getting sick from alcohol, not from doing Frank and Bill's "Steps".
Have a good day now.
== Orange
[The next letter from Dave_K is here.]
Date: Wed, January 2, 2013 3:00 pm (Answered 5 January 2013) The Catholic Church has not condemned the participation of a Roman Catholic lay in the AA program, as long as one doesnt deny Christ or the any teachings of the Church. The sick sat among the God man, Our Lord as you know. Did they recognize Him immediately or totally understand how they would be led unto The Holy Cross and realize completely at one time during discipleship they would be eating His Eucharisted Flesh and Blood (John 6 36 -59). Many left him , but did that mean one or more did not return to be disciples later ? Ofcourse not. The sick need the Divine Physician, Jesus Christ. Many members of AA and even Christians, like non Catholics can be deceived by Satan. Such as those who deny the the Holy Eucharist only receivable as a Roman Catholic. Or in so called 'speaking in tounges ' without having one present in the midst of the Community who can interperate them.... This all may sound familiar if your non Catholic. Please pray to The Holy Spirit for your own discernment on considering the Catholic Church's Rite of Christian Initiation of Adults. Come seek the fullness of Truth. Many things you said can be true if one denys Christ in AA. So glad you began to protest. But only the Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church in communion with Rome, or the Holy See (Pope Benedict 16th and the Cardinals ,Bishops in Communion with him ) has the Authority to make accusations of heretical doctrine. Masonry has been condemned as gravely sinful, but not AA practiced in True Faith Hope, and Love. You , Mr. Orange , do not. Receive this in charity, my mystical Brother in Christ. Julian S. Pax Christi !
Hello Julian,
Thanks for the letter. I am painfully aware of the fact that the Catholic Church has not
banned Alcoholics Anonymous. They should have, but they have not.
The Church banned the predecessor of A.A., Dr. Frank Buchman's Oxford Group
— a.k.a. "Moral Re-Armament" — twice
(look
here
and
here).
Bishop Noa of Marquette condemned the Oxford Group/MRA for
syncretism
and
indifferentism.
And he should have also mentioned the banned practice of public confessions.
And Alcoholics Anonymous is still guilty of all three.
A.A. is also guilty of a whole lot more than that. You should read the file
The Heresy of the Twelve Steps.
Bill Wilson learned from the Church banning the Oxford Group, so he did a better job
of disguising A.A., and claiming that it isn't a competing religion, engaging in public confessions.
Bill renamed confession to "sharing", and renamed sins to
"defects of character" and "moral shortcomings"
and "wrongs".
And Bill claimed that A.A. wasn't religious, it was merely "spiritual".
Still, the Church can't be that blind and stupid. "Anything as your God?"
Any "Higher Power"? Doorknob Almighty? Really now.
I can only conclude the the Church's reluctance to ban Alcoholics Anonymous is a political and
economic decision, because the higher-up Church authorities realize that if the Catholic A.A.
members are forced to choose between the Church or A.A., they will go with A.A., because that
is their true faith.
By the way, we were coincidentally just discussing how Christian the 12 Steps are in a previous
letter, here:
Have a good day now.
== Orange
[Note: these letters crossed in the mail. I received this letter as I was posting the previous one.]
[ Link here =
http://www.orange-papers.info/orange-letters337.html#Julian_S2 ]
Date: Thu, January 3, 2013 3:45 pm (Answered 7 January 2013) Mr. 'Orange', I continued reading you site to observe and read all the evidence you present, and was shocked. I was too quick to dismiss your info. I apoligize if my email came off abrupt. I thank you gratefully for this Catholic weaponry against some heretical ideology written into the core of AA documents and poor applications to live spiritual and glad some were at least protestant. I was horrified by the info on the seances and did not go inside the home where the ' spook room ' was when I visited Akron. I have been a Grateful Catholic since applying 12 steps to my life. But not without my trials. I have been sober for nine years, thanks to the Holy Eucharist and frequent Confession. The Rosary was huge also. I pray 5 decades a day most of the time. Some odd occasions of sin have plagued my walk which I have given into certain ones and yes, many regarding lust / bad relationships have mostly been associated with meeting culture. There are striking areas of my recent past that have had me running to frequent Sacraments of The Roman Catholic Church, and repentance and conversion has always been there for me to fend off attacks by the enemy of Faith, Satan. There have been awesome times of peace too and I have made many friends in AA. I also have been able to openly evangelize and convince fallen away Catholics and Christians to get back to Church during sobriety. Ive have great conversations with many an Agnostic and Atheist in meetings and afterward in parking lots and restaurants. I will take this info to my spiritual director in the Church, a priest and a have a good Permanent Deacon friend to go through these issues with. I have made plans to leave aa recently due to much Atheism, Agnostic, and anti Christian attitudes i keep running into. But finding this info has really made me glad to be Roman Catholic and find refuge in my Faith community. I will Spread this Orange Papers site around. Keep me in prayer. Happy New year... God bless you. Julian S. (313) xxx xxxx
Hello again, Julian,
That sounds good. I hope those elders take those issues seriously.
And congratulations on your sobriety.
Something that I didn't even mention in the "heresy" file is sexual abuse — because,
technically, that isn't heresy. It's just a very common human failing.
The Midtown Group in Washington DC became notorious for being a sexual exploitation society
where teenage girls were immediately assigned a middle-aged male sponsor as soon as they
walked in the door. And he told her that he would "teach her how to have sober sex".
(Look here.)
And then I received a bunch of letters telling me that it was also going on all over the country,
from Seattle to Miami, and from Los Angeles to New York.
Imagine having such a group meeting in the basement of your church.
Oh well, have a good day now. And a good year.
== Orange
Also see another reply to this question: orange-letters338.html#Noel
Date: Wed, January 2, 2013 5:36 pm (Answered 5 January 2013) Orange, Thanks for the work you put into creating the Orange Papers. I can say that I experienced 99% of what you described in your writings. I've been trying since 18 to quit and stay off drugs. I'm 23 now and haven't had a drink or a drug in 6 months and I haven't been to a meeting in that long either. For a long time I wondered why I "didn't get it" in NA/AA. I thought there was something wrong with me and I was one of those who were "constitutionally incapable". Reading your work was an eye opening experience and explained a lot of what I went through. I appreciate all the time and attention you expended on your website. It reached me in a profound way. I also really enjoyed your pictures of the Geese :D I hope the Orange Papers reach others too. Much love — Brian
Hello Brian,
Thanks for the letter and the compliments.
I'm glad to hear that you are doing well, and have figured out which way is up.
That brightens my morning cup of coffee.
And congratulations on your sobriety.
So have a good day and a good life now.
== Orange
Date: Wed, January 2, 2013 11:49 pm (Answered 5 January 2013) Thought your report was interesting, and I was wondering how organized religion would rank on the scale of cult activity? Just curious? Cant say i would consider AA a cult, but Very interesting none the less. Ricky G.
Hello Ricky,
That is a complicated question, and there isn't any simple answer because there is no such
church as "Organized Religion". There are many different churches — very different
churches — and they all score differently on
The Cult Test.
Obviously, the existing churches cover the entire range from very mellow, peaceful, easy-going,
and tolerant churches, to the angry, hateful, dogmatic ones, to the crazy suicide cults.
So if you have one particular church in mind that you know well, I'd recommend that you rate it
with The Cult Test, and you will have your answer.
Have a good day now.
== Orange
[ Link here =
http://www.orange-papers.info/orange-letters337.html#Dave_K2 ]
Date: Thu, January 3, 2013 8:34 pm (Answered 7 January 2013) noticed that in "The 12 Biggest Secrets of AA" you state "Drug and alcohol addictions are not incurable, progressive diseases that usually end in death." The AMA definition of alcoholism: "a primary, chronic disease with genetic, psychosocial, and environmental factors influencing its development and manifestations." Webster defines "chronic" as :
1 I also notice you used the words "alcohol addictions" and not the word "alcoholism", so perhaps there is some difference here? I would appreciate your comments on this. I must say that as an alcoholic I find your writings very interesting and somewhat refreshing. I quit on my own and stayed sober for 20 years. Then one day I believed the addiction monster and drank a beer. It took me 5 long years to stop again and during that time almost lost my life. I have now been sober for 7. I do believe that I will always be alcoholic and the only way to avoid tragedy is to never pick up a drink again. So for me, my alcoholism is incurable and i will always be alcoholic. Its just reality. I found AA to be helpful in many ways but never did drink the cool-aid. And much of the help there had nothing to do with quitting drinking. Dave K.
Hello Dave,
Thanks for the letter, and congratulations for your sobriety.
Well, starting at the top, the AMA did not even bother to write a definition of "alcoholism".
What they did was let a joint committee of two A.A. front groups write a warped, weird, definition.
"The Joint Committee of the National Council on Alcoholism and
Drug Dependence and the American Society of Addiction Medicine"
— both old, well-known A.A. front groups — wrote a definition
of "alcoholism" that is so goofy that it does not even say that alcoholism is caused by
drinking alcohol. No, they wanted to leave the door open for declaring that alcoholism
is a spiritual disease that requires a spiritual cure.
Look here for a discussion of the two A.A. front groups
writing the absurd definition of alcoholism for the AMA.
The AMA jabber about alcoholism is no different from their declarations in the nineteen-fifties
that cigarette smoking is okay, and even good for you. The AMA was just bowing to political and
economic interests, making statements that were not based on any medical research.
Remember that the AMA is merely a private club for doctors, and its main goal is more money and
power for itself and its doctors.
The AMA has a long sordid history of putting money before medicine.
Morris Fishbein, the schemer who built the AMA up into the rich organization that it is,
was busted for racketeering, because he blackmailed pharmaceutical companies into buying
expensive full-page advertisements in his JAMA (Journal of the American Medical Association)
or else the AMA wouldn't approve of their medicines.
The Webster's definition of "chronic" does not say that drinking alcohol
is a progressive disease that ends in death.
And it doesn't. More than half of all alcoholics and drug addicts just "snap out of it" one day,
and get their lives together:
Here is a picture of the relevant page of the DSM-IV (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, published by the American Psychiatric Association):
The word "alcoholism" has just as many contradictory definitions as the world "alcoholic". A.A. uses at least four different definitions of "alcoholic", and mixes them up, which confuses the issue. The definitions are: Likewise, the word "alcoholism" has multiple definitions:
Before we can have a good debate about "alcoholism", we need to at least correctly define the word. Lastly, I also went through the big relapse routine, many years ago. I quit drinking in 1987, and stayed sober for three years. Three years of perfect sobriety, not one drink, not even one sip. Then I made the mistake of having a few beers at a friend's birthday party, and that was it. I drank for another nine years, until I was so sick that a doctor told me to quit drinking or die, choose one. That is really a very common phenomenon, and does not prove anything about "alcoholism" being progressive or incurable. It's simple: After you have been addicted to any drug, you tend to be very sensitive to it, and it's easy to get readdicted. The brain has learned those old behavior patterns well, and you won't ever forget them. Likewise, the body has learned how to react to massive onslaughts of alcohol and compensate and adapt, and your body can easily drop back into the same old routines again. That doesn't mean that "alcoholism" is an incurable disease. I have the same problem with tobacco. I quit smoking and then backslid and got readdicted again for 30 years. I learned the hard way from many relapses that all it takes is one cigarette and I'm readdicted again. Fortunately, I finally learned my lesson, and I haven't smoked a cigarette in 12 years. And I haven't had a drink, or a hit of any other drugs, in 12 years, either. So you see, "alcoholism" and drug addiction just aren't incurable progressive diseases. But I will always be hyper-sensitive to alcohol and tobacco, which is why I don't consume any of those things. I live by these two simple slogans:
Just don't take that first drink, not ever, no matter what.
Just don't smoke that first cigarette, not ever, no matter what.It works for me. Have a good day now, and a good life. == Orange
Date: Fri, January 4, 2013 8:07 am Hello i was wondering if you knew any more about the history of the Herbert Spenser quote or misquote as it were. I have heard it stated several times that it is a misquote and am wondering in this case exactly what that means? Full disclosure i am a member of alcoholics anonymous and have no interest debating you. I have come to your site many times for information and greatly respect and appreciate the work you have done. I like to find the truth as ugly as it is sometimes.
sincerely
Date: Fri, January 4, 2013 8:09 am never mind i found the foot note. again thank you for all the hard work you have done researching the history
Date: Sat, January 5, 2013 11:23 am (Answered 7 January 2013) You are insane promoting your distortions through selective and subjective sentences. You are one nasty sociopath if not a psychopath. AA secrets? Choose your own conception of God is a lie and distortion?You obviously redefined and adulterated the word "conception".Pg12 "...to make my beginning.Growth could start from that point." "HIM". But you already knew this snake. Why do I write you? To put you on notice that my Father is aware of your evil and the suffering you impose and that your time has come to cease and desist.Enough! But your spiral downfall started long ago. And you always knew why. This is just a confirmation.
Hello Teodoro,
Thanks for the letter. I can only conclude that Step Two really restored you to sanity.
Oh well, have a good day anyway.
== Orange
Date: Sun, January 6, 2013 12:07 pm (Answered 8 January 2013) Hi, Kristine Cass's (who was murdered by AA member Clayborn Conely in Hawaii in Aug 2010) ex husband and Saundra Cass's DAD wrote a whole page about hating AA and understanding AA is responsible. Im going to find him and call him .... If we can send this around one more time that would be great. I will be taking it down in a few weeks and sending it to President Obama and First Lady. For starters. It will eventually be sent to all senators and to our governor as we have a serious infiltration of Steppers in our government and mental health community. http://signon.org/sign/stop-courts-from-sending-1
Happy New YEAR! Its gonna be good year. also please forward, tweet, facebook or email to anyone or anywhere you feel is appropriate. Thanks again. this is also a new poster on stop13step in AA site that is outrageous.
Hello again, Monica,
Yes, I signed it, and put it on my Facebook page, and I'll pass the message around.
You know, something that was not even mentioned in that petition is that innocent kids also
get sentenced to the same A.A. meetings as the vicious criminals get sent to.
Some teenagers get busted driving home from a party buzzed, and they get sentenced to A.A. meetings
where the oldtimer predators have an easy time with the fresh meat.
So we need another petition to stop sending innocent kids to A.A. meetings.
Oh well, have a good day now.
== Orange
Date: Sat, January 5, 2013 7:17 pm (Answered 8 January 2013) You don't mention if you are alcoholic or simply have a drinking problem. Sounds like you have a grudge thing going, did you lose someone in aa or do Simply hate any reference to GOD?
Hello Oleh,
Thanks for the questions. Your first sentence assumes things that aren't true any more.
That is, I used to be an alcoholic, but since I haven't had a drink in 12 years, I don't think
it's accurate to call myself an alcoholic any more. Likewise, I obviously don't have a drinking
problem any more either. We were just discussing the various definitions of the word "alcoholic"
in a previous letter,
here,
and the problem is that A.A. uses many different meanings of the word
"alcoholic" and mixes them up, which clouds and confuses the issues.
The distinction between "alcoholic" and "problem drinker" is also a
false dichotomy.
I most assuredly have talked about my alcoholism on the web site, many, many times. Check out these links:
Then you asked,
My goal is simply to get the truth out there. Yes, I've lost friends (see items 1 and 3 above), and
A.A. was no help to them at all.
And no, I don't hate references to God. What a lame
Ad Hominem attack.
Steppers really should get an education and learn some better propaganda tricks.
Constantly reusing the same few tired, hackneyed,
Ad Hominem attacks is just getting old.
You want talk about God? Good! See the file on
The Heresy of the Twelve Steps
for lots of talk about God.
Have a good day now.
== Orange
[The next letter from Oleh_D is here.]
Date: Mon, December 31, 2012 9:09 pm (Answered 8 January 2013)
Orange Sent from my iPhone
Hello Brian,
Not to quibble over definitions of words, that question really depends on what you mean
by "member". I've been to a lot of A.A. meetings, and have seen the whole routine,
and sat in The Roomz and listened to lots of insanity in hour-long doses,
but personally, I never considered myself a member. (Not insane, just visiting.)
That is, I never sold my soul to the cult.
I never had a sponsor, I never "Worked The Steps", and I never believed in
"The Big Book".
Because the A.A. tradition says that someone is a member when he says he is a member, I guess
I was never a member.
These links will give you the rest of the story:
Have a good day now.
== Orange
[The next letter from Brian_M is here.]
Last updated 9 March 2013. |
