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[ Link here = http://www.orange-papers.info/orange-letters254.html#Rodney_R ]
Date: Wed, August 3, 2011 3:09 pm (answered 6 August 2011) Fascinating!!!!!!! We can justify anything,, I bet you were once in A.A. and didn't make it so now your bitter and have sought other methods that better suited your life style — I couldn't afford those places and or treatments because I was broke due to drinking!!!!
Hello again, Rodney,
That is a really lame attempt to explain away information that disturbs your favorite
superstitions.
The truth is, I quit drinking two weeks before I went to A.A., and I have 10 years of sobriety now.
I also have 10 years off of drugs and cigarettes. I just quit everything at once by using self-reliance
and my own intelligence and will power. And my determination not to die that way.
I went to A.A. and N.A. meetings for a short while, about 3 months, and then rejected them as just another
cult religion.
I did get a so-called "treatment program", paid for by the Oregon Health Plan. That is where I learned
that quackery and cult religion were being sold as a cure for drug and alcohol problems.
That story is
here.
Yes a scum buckett,,,, I WAS,,, Well, my suggestion is to hurry up and get all this help to those that need it,, because the court system and Hospitals still send them (hurting people ) to A.A./ I bet those DOCTORS you pointed out,, are keeping it to themselves or they are selling it to the highest bidder or to Insurance Companies,,, Doctors keeping what to themselves? What are you talking about? Now thats a mockery,,Regardless the Dollar Occult is still out there while others with The Truth,,lol,, stay quite ,,You know I once heard that those that do nothing usually find Fault with those that do something!!!!!!! Just saying- Keep up the Good Work-Fault finding is really hard work...NOTTTTTT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm fumilure
Rodney, I both find fault with quack cures and suggest better alternatives.
Look here for better alternatives.
Have a good day now.
== Orange
[ Link here = http://www.orange-papers.info/orange-letters254.html#UNNAMED ]
Date: Wed, August 3, 2011 3:12 pm (answered 6 August 2011) Thanks Terrance for a great letter. On the genetic thing. On re-reading my letter I did come across as anti-genetic research being done on alcohol dependency. I did not mean that. All research for its own sake broadens knowledge. It is just that when it comes to the brain and genetics we are about in the 13th century as regards to its effective non destructive application. In Spain during this time doctors were called 'mata sanos' which means killers of the healthy .... and until whatever genes or combination thereof once isolated are fully understood .... policies regarding what to do with this new knowledge are best NOT MADE. Have a great day Unnamed
Hello Unnamed,
No worries. I was not referring to you when I talked about some people denying the genetic link to alcoholism.
I was referring to the doctors and other authority figures who vehemently deny that there is
any genetic component to alcoholism. As I said, that is a hotly debated topic.
There are some people who have published very strident
articles that insist that we have been looking for an alcoholism gene for 50 years now and
have never found anything, so the genetic theory is thoroughly disproved.
No it isn't:
James Christopher's book
SOS Sobriety, The Proven Alternative to 12-Step Programs
contains an interview with Dr. Kenneth Blum, who discovered the first gene that is
linked to alcoholism.
Now some people who wish to believe that there is no genetic component to alcoholism try to
dismiss their research as flawed, so the debate is still going on, hot and heavy.
I hope that the newly-decoded human genome will give further hints and evidence.
We will get it all figured out eventually.
Have a good day now.
== Orange
P.S.: And then something else came to mind: The alcoholic monkeys in this video:
Alcoholic Vervet Monkeys
That monkey population has the same percentages of alcoholics and tea-totalers as humans do,
which strongly suggests a genetic factor that is common to everything from those monkeys to us.
There is no way to argue that those monkeys and humans have the same
environments, society, or childhood upbringing.
(So why don't more monkeys become alcoholics? Because they can't get a steady supply of alcohol.)
[The next letter from UNNAMED is here.]
Date: Wed, August 3, 2011 9:46 pm (answered 6 August 2011) I'm absolutely blown away by the amount of data and documentation you have gathered and assembled and made freely distributable. Its amazing. I quit AA 3 1/2 years ago. I figured out much of what you have figured out. I started complaining about being tired of the lies, and then some members pointed me to you and accused me of mimicking you... like I'm not capable of figuring out the lies after 16 years. I kept looking around at others with the same amount of time and I realized they were abusing their status in AA, and they were not happy with me because I was not following in their and other's footsteps. Screw them. When I decided to quit, I had nice young lady who had less than a year tell me she was really mad at me because she loved my message and I have so much time that I'm taking away from the program that she needs... she told me that RIGHT IN FRONT OF MY WIFE when we went out to eat and she was our waitress!!! Amazing what a brain washing operation AA is. I have no desire to be involved in that crap anymore. Prison Yard / Psych Ward / Control Freak Fest assembly. I'm actually ashamed I forced myself to go there for so long knowing in the back of my mind what kind of sick crap goes on there. It hurt me quite a bit I think. Yea, I'm grateful for my sobriety, but I'm really ashamed I was in that organization. Every guru I met had some kind of sick crap they were doing in there. One lady I met, a real guru, had been sponsored by one of the first 100. She was 20 years my senior and she kept grabbing my ass every chance she could get (without anyone noticing). What the hell?
Hello Patrick,
Thank you for the letter.
And congratulations on your newfound freedom, and also for your sobriety, in all meanings of the word.
The story about the young lady who was so upset at you rejecting A.A. because it deprived her
of the "message" that she loved is so revealing, isn't it?
"Don't bother me with the facts; I don't want to hear the truth;
I have my comforting fairy tales, and I don't want to lose my belief in them."
About the other old-timers, that just seems to come with the territory, doesn't it?
It's really funny how both Frank Buchman and Bill Wilson managed to sell the idea that if you
gather a bunch of sinners and degenerates and sick people and mentally ill people
and criminals and alcoholics together in a room,
and have them do some cultish practices, you will eventually get a bunch of saints.
(Even though Bill wrote in the Big Book "We are not saints." Yes,
but he also wrote, "Progress, not perfection," which implies that A.A. members progress
towards perfection, and eventually The Promises will come true.)
Oh well, have a good day anyway.
== Orange
Date: Thu, August 4, 2011 2:06 am (answered 6 August 2011) hi terrence thanks for your reply to my letter regarding the publishing of a book i dont blame you for wanting to hit the beach instead of the computer i,m not very good with computers myself i,m still on vacation at the moment but when i return to my town i intend to print some flyers with the website addresses of alternatives to the 12 step cults including your own website its been quite amazing since i left cult and got my brain out of hock i,m starting to realise the true extent of my own personal power and act upon it. i will be entering the dens of AA when i get home and handing out flyers to the newcomers theres no point in trying to reason with the old timers their brains are addled with wilsonite doctrine the new methods of stopping drinking seem to be about empowering people to take control of their lives and actions and to put people in touch with their own personal power it makes sense.
Anyway terrence thankyou once again for the orange papers
Okay, Captain,
Thanks for the thanks, and the images.
Have a good day now.
== Orange
Date: Thu, August 4, 2011 2:18 am (answered 6 August 2011) Hi Orange. I have been sober for 11 months now. Was going to A.A. meetings and at some stage was very passionate about the 12 Step program. Was thorough and honest and was often invited to give speeches about miracles of the Program to those, who are less enthusiastic in their journey through 12 Steps. I am used to be a living example of "working the steps". Everything changed for me when I started to carry "this" message in Step 12 last month. I've got a nice and pretty female sponsee (or she got me). And a difficult one. She was asking many difficult questions. I did not like her desire to know everything BEFORE working the steps. And at the same time, did not feel right to simply ignore her legitimate questions. My sponsor, who has been in A.A. for forty (40!) years told me to say to my sponsee: "SHUT THE F@#K UP!". I must say, it was quite a discovery for me, since I was convinced that I should not be ashamed of standing together with God and carry His message. Very soon I felt that when I carry "the message", I do not believe myself. What I say is "right", according to the Big Book and A.A., I say the same things I was told, but I simply felt there was something terribly wrong with it. I started to doubt if what I was doing was right. On 24 July 2011, early morning, I asked myself a question: "What actually happened first? I sobered up, or worked the Steps?". I did not like the answer, but — it was ME who stopped drinking and smoking (after 15 years of doing both). I simply "was swallowing my fist" in the times when it was hard and did not take a drink or a cigarette no matter what... I felt disturbed and cheated: A.A. was taking "credit" for my sobriety. Also — I was looking for help with alcohol and instead obtained membership in a cult. When I discussed it with my sponsor (for the purpose of solving this inner conflict and getting back to my comfort zone), the guy who probably remembers A.A. being formed, answered: "I can debate about anything, but I am not prepared to debate about A.A. or the Steps — the most beautiful program in the World". Also that I can go and drink, that I will crawl back... That I hurt him... Asking about what happened to me, since I was working the Steps thoroughly etc.... And also — he asked me to keep away from meetings, so I can't harm anyone with my evil thoughts. (I did not "understand it", since "the only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking". In fact — I don't even have to call myself(or be) an alcoholic). Thanks to my sponsor, by his actions, he confirmed everything I did not want to believe in: A.A. is a religious sect, open-mindedness does not exist there... I found your Web-Site and... Well, thanks, you made a big job and put so many thoughts together. I do not like to turn around 180° when actually things are working fine. I still go to meetings. Nowadays, I sit in my group of Alcoholics Anonymous and I have no bloody clue what for. I see a bunch of very nice men and women who with sincere interest discuss fairy tales. Well, having delusional aims and living in delusion, unfortunately leads to quite a real fall. And the pain from the fall is quite real as well. I have stopped carrying the message, but my sponsee, told me a couple of days ago, that she feels that A.A. is a sect! Thank you, my dear... And what could I tell her? "Yes, it is!". I speak to many people from A.A. about it. I carry my "evil" message. In the form of questions. The same ones I was asking myself. I feel like doing it BUT, I am confused with some issues:
What do you think?
Regards,
Hello Mikhail,
Thank you for the letter and a bunch of great questions. And thank you for your pursuit of
the truth.
Well, let's see if I can answer those questions.
First off, A.A. doesn't really give people a happy delusion. For every person who finds A.A. to
be a happy fairy tale, 19 others grow disappointed and leave. Unfortunately, before they leave,
they get taught that to leave A.A. is to relapse and die drunk in a gutter.
And many make that a self-fulfilling prediction.
And since they have also been taught that they are powerless over alcohol, some don't think they
have any choice in the matter. The misinformation of A.A. takes its toll.
Then there are the people who get told not to take their medications, and end up in the hospital or
dying. Then there are the girls who get sexually exploited. A.A. isn't really such a happy fairy tale.
And then there are the people like you and your sponsee who get told to stop looking for the truth.
"SHUT THE F@#K UP!"
Then there are all of the people who hear each meeting start with Bill Wilson's lie:
"RARELY HAVE we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path."
Then there is the whole question of the meaning of life. Is the real purpose of life to just enjoy
a comforting fairy tale until you die?
If you believe in any kind of spirituality, then the answer to that
question has to be "No." Like Jesus said,
"Learn the truth, and the truth shall set you free."
On the other hand, if you think that just whiling away your time happily deluded is an
okay thing to do with your short, precious life, then why not just stay drunk
and stoned all of the time? That is pretty much the same thing.
This is really the same question as question number one.
And the answer is the same. "Spoiling the fun" by telling the truth is not a bad thing.
Yes, most religions can be criticized for being irrational. But most religions don't pass
themselves off as a magical cure for alcoholism and drug addiction.
(I know, some do, I said most.)
Then you tacked on another question: What is my goal? My goal is to tell the truth, the whole truth,
and nothing but the truth. I believe that if people know the truth about
A.A., alcoholism, recovery — the whole big thing — that it will help them.
A few true believers may be disturbed by hearing the truth shattering their cherished illusions,
but most people will benefit from the truth.
Ah, now this is a complicated question. Alcoholics Anonymous is different things to different
people. There are a whole lot of reasons and purposes.
Have a good day now.
== Orange
Date: Thu, August 4, 2011 8:01 pm (answered 6 August 2011) I am just wondering where you get your information from. I find it really interesting since I have read some of the work on the onerecovery website. Please let me know. I would really like to know of the reference material this is based on.
Thanks,
Hello Kat,
Thanks for the question. My first source of information was, and still is, the official
A.A. publications themselves, like the Big Book, and 12X12, and PASS IT ON,
and "Alcoholics Anonymous Comes Of Age", and "Dr. Bob and the Good Old-Timers"
and stuff like that.
And then sometimes, on some rare lucky occasions, some anonymous mouse sends me a goody like the
A.A. internal document that I just got that talked about the problem of sexual exploitation
of underage girls and women in A.A. groups,
here.
And then a zillion other history books, and books about cults, and books about human psychology,
and recovery, and addiction and alcoholism, and on and on...
See
the bibliography, here.
Then I use the local public libraries heavily, and also the local medical school library.
I also use their databases and catalogs and indices.
I described how I do that
here and
here.
I also do searches using my public library's access to
EBSCO
and other periodicals databases.
Many of the best articles on these subjects
are not directly accessible on the
Internet (via a search engine like Google or Lycos);
you have to go through a database like
EBSCO
or
The Electric Library
to get them (free).
And then of course I use the Internet.
Wikipedia isn't very useful though, because the A.A. true believers delete any disturbing
information within minutes of it being posted.
Have a good day now.
== Orange
http://www.orange-papers.info/ATTACHMENT_TO_TOPIC_002-PREDATORS.pdf That's a new one. It's the first time that I've seen an admission like this that 13th stepping constitutes sexual harassment as opposed to just women using AA meetings to find dates (though I have no doubt that occurs as well). If anything will bring down AA, I think this is what will.
Hi again, John,
Well it would be nice if that brought down A.A., or at least ended the coercive recruiting
for A.A., but I kind of doubt it. A.A. has more tenacity, and
is harder to wipe out, than a colony of cockroaches.
A.A. has survived so many "crises" for so long that I think it will take more than
a sex scandal to end it.
But one can hope.
At the very least, the growing public awareness of what A.A. really is, is slowly taking the
shine off of A.A.'s stellar reputation.
Oh well, have a good day anyway.
== Orange
[ Link here = http://www.orange-papers.info/orange-letters254.html#John_M ]
Date: Tue, August 9, 2011 6:51 am (answered 10 August 2011) Hey Orange: While I have no doubt that the AA Organization is strong and will try to combat these "isolated" 13th steppers, I think it will be just about as successful as the Catholic church trying to combat the "isolated" chomo priests. Legally, they may get off (no pun intended) but the public relations will be a nightmare. Which is kinda sad, actually, since it will ignore the voodoo science that they have been based on.
Hi again, John,
Indeed. Talking about the sexual abuse in A.A. doesn't even mention the quackery or
ineffectiveness of using an old Nazi cult religion as a treatment program for addictions.
But maybe, just maybe, the truth will out eventually.
Have a good day now.
== Orange
Date: Fri, August 5, 2011 1:25 pm (answered 7 August 2011)
I was reading about the Midtown mess: ..and saw this:
#28 "Later: And this is an interesting post: the MySpace group "The Fall of Midtown" has posted an article on how to keep your group from getting taken over by the Midtown group. It seems that Mike Q. and his gang have taken over 18 A.A. groups by invading them in large numbers and then voting the previous leaders out, and changing the rules to make the Mike Q. clique dominant. It sure sounds like an invasive cancer to me. (Or the Borgs: "Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.")" This is exactly what fundamentalist AA in Miami did when people attempted Freethinker/atheist/agnostic meetings. Only one such meeting survived, probably because it was in a bad part of town on Sunday morning. I'm glad there weren't more atheist/agnostic meetings, it makes all the other things wrong with AA less obvious.
Hello again Ray,
It's good to hear from you. Perhaps your experience in Miami was not just a coincidence.
For a few years, legal things were getting to be too hot for Mike Quinones
in Washington DC — the cops were asking a lot of questions about
the statutory rape of underage girls, and where all the money was
going — so Mike moved part of his gang to Miami, Florida,
and set up the southern branch of his cult there. It is quite possible that
you were not seeing copies of the Midtown Group, or look-alikes, you
were seeing the actual Beast itself.
Have a good day now.
== Orange
Date: Fri, August 5, 2011 11:17 am (answered 7 August 2011) I did not notice on the orange papers anything talking about the reason they called it the Big Book. Perhaps it is there somewhere and sorry if I missed it. I posted this on the X-steppers forum. Feel free to edit and add to your site it you would like.
Hello Professor G.,
Thanks for information. You make a bunch of good points there.
Have a good day now.
== Orange
Date: Sat, August 6, 2011 7:22 am (answered 7 August 2011) Father Ted was an English series about 3 cathaholic priests stuck on a tiny island called Craggy Rock in the British Isles. Father Jack was the mad alcoholic priest..... Father Jack goes to AA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvmA_7pMlX4&feature=related
Hi again, Shane,
Thanks for the link. Yes, another A.A. spoof.
(Is it just me, or do there seem to be a lot of them lately?)
Have a good day now.
== Orange
Date: Sat, August 6, 2011 9:22 am (answered 7 August 2011) I would like to congratulate you for your sublime writing. Thank you keep it up. Did you relapse?
Thanks
Hello Shefikhasbun,
Thank you for the compliment. And I'm happy to say that I didn't relapse. I have 10 years
of total sobriety now, free of alcohol, drugs, and cigarettes.
Have a good day now.
== Orange
[ Link here = http://www.orange-papers.info/orange-letters254.html#UNNAMED2 ]
Date: Thu, August 4, 2011 5:25 am (answered 8 August 2011) Terrance,
Your description of the brutal childhood you had is moving. I believe and
that what it is and cannot be proven ... that alcohol dependence is
primarily a learned behavior. As a small child you wanted the acceptance
and respect of your father and as a child you were not able to discern that
his opinion of you was a worthless as he was not a good role model. You
learned unconsciously that male adults get drunk when they are happy or
upset. Then you had the misfortune ... of growing up in a culture where
between the ages of say 15-25 it is acceptable to get drunk out of your mind
with friends. With that pain you were lugging and in a culture that
promotes emotional autonomy not interdependence in which someone would have
gone out of their way at any point on this road to coach, encourage, and
care for you ... yes it was inevitable. That is how I explain why until
very recently female alcoholics were as rare as albinos in the country I
grew up. Even when the father was abusive and a drunk ... the mother was
not. The immediate consequences of getting drunk for a woman were so
frightening that they always moderated their drinking. Although they had
limited opportunities in terms of changing their life circumstances they
always had the comfort found in female solidarity and friendship. They were
never a number or a statistic. Anthropology is a science that looks at
themes regarding human behavior as it works in many cultures. The US should
include more of it in the study of this condition. It would help to
moderate this raging controversy that makes one area too much focus. I now
have returned to the country that is very similar to the one of my childhood
and *I do go out of my way to make time for the kids next door whose father
is an alcoholic. Your letter inspires me to keep doing it. * Unnamed
Hello again, UNNAMED,
Thank you for spending time with the kids next door.
About learned alcoholism:
That really is the heart of the debate, you know. Nature or Nurture. Genetics or learned behavior.
When a child has an alcoholic parent, he could either inherit genes for alcoholism, or
learn it from the alcoholic parent, or both. Personally, I think it's both.
And it isn't just a matter of learning that drinking is okay because Dad did it.
There is also the whole problem that having an alcoholic parent dumps the children into
an environment that is very warped and different. The children learn a lot of values and
attitudes that come from living with an alcoholic parent.
Like the idea that you can't win.
Like the idea that you can't trust anyone.
Like the idea that it's okay to kill your pain.
Then
the constant stress causes the children's Cerebellar Vermises to grow malformed,
which makes them feel weird and out of sorts for life.
Then, if there are several genes that modulate the risk for alcohol addiction,
and that unhappy child has inherited some of them, then you really have trouble.
It really is a complex puzzle. We need a lot more research. Unfortunately —
or really, fortunately — it isn't possible to do randomized longitudinal
controlled studies on children, to see what makes them turn alcoholic.
Have a good day now.
Orange
Date: Sun, August 7, 2011 5:05 am (answered 8 August 2011) what people chose to believe is as personal and God given as is their life. just like so many of lifes critics, people can find whats wrong with something rather than looking for the good. AA saved my life when all else failed....that is a fact....I have worked with many others that could not stop drinking and don't drink today...that is a fact. my ignorance is always an asset looking at whats wrong with others. AA has shown me a new way of seeing others and life its self ,LOOK FOR THE GOOD
Hello Kevin,
Thanks for the letter. Congratulations on your sobriety. Nobody else and nothing else
did that for you.
I'm sure that you believe that A.A. saved your life. A.A. is good at making people
believe that A.A did something good for them, much better at that than at actually making
people quit drinking.
You believe that A.A. saved your life. What you are ignoring is the fact that 19 other people
around you didn't benefit from the A.A. routine. A few people quit drinking by using their
own will power and determination, and then A.A. steals the credit for their hard work.
A.A. takes none of the blame for those people who don't quit drinking, or who repeatedly
relapse while working the Steps.
When you say, "Look at the good", what that means is,
"Don't look at the big picture. Don't see the whole thing, the good and the bad. Especially,
don't notice what is wrong with A.A."
We have to look at both the good and the bad of A.A.,
especially when A.A. kills more people than it saves.
You said,
Actually, beliefs are given by men, not God. Beliefs are taught.
Churches teach beliefs, and cults routinely routinely teach lots of goofy beliefs.
Unfortunately, many of those beliefs are very harmful, in addition to being untrue.
For instance, if a cult were to tell people that they should
not to go to a doctor and get medical treatment,
and should not take their children to a doctor,
rather just trust the cult's religious practices and prayers to heal them,
then I would have to denounce that belief as one very bad belief.
In fact, I've done so, many times. Here in Portland Oregon,
we have a church that claims to be Christian that routinely kills another child every couple
of years by not taking the child to a doctor when he or she is sick.
Two parents were just convicted of manslaughter, and the trial of another pair is coming up.
Alcoholics Anonymous does the same thing too when a sponsor tells his sponsee not to take the
medications that the doctor prescribed, and just trust the 12 Steps to heal him.
That is a very bad belief, and not from God.
It does not matter how fervently people believe in their beliefs,
that does not keep the victims of such superstition alive.
Finally, this line is great evidence for what is wrong with A.A.: obstinate anti-intellectualism
and refusal to learn the truth:
Being ignorant of the truth is not an asset.
Oh well, have a good day anyway.
== Orange
Date: Mon, July 25, 2011 9:24 am i delt in the occut while going to aa. now i have stange things happening to me. not being funny at all. i believe everything u have written. wish i knew it then. when i would ask my sponser a question she would tell me to do the first three steps over first. sorry about the spelling. as i said, she would have me do the first three steps over. i did this for seven years. now i have a force? spirit? trying to control my life. its like its trying to make my life miserable so i will have to go back to aa. cant do that. i think i have been ostracized from aa. last time i went, a women came up to me and said what are u doing here. didnt know the person. some stare at me. i have been yelled at in aa. told i should be ashamed of my self. some people didn't think i was an alcoholic. i told a friend in aa when someone asked a question about me to tell them i was writing a book. then i went to my cousins in wilmington for six months. when i came back, all this crazy stuff started. went to one aa meeting and they told me they heard i was dead. i think they would have liked. after that downhill. eventually stopped going. whats wierd about aa is that when i attended the first meeting i could recognize what you are talking about, but then i did get brainwashed. u know the saying something like your brain needs a good washing. anyway this force has missed up my life. have you seen any evidence of hypnosis? please reply. sincerly. now spell check wont work.
Date: Sat, August 6, 2011 8:19 pm (answered 8 August 2011) i asked u about covert hypnosis. it happens in aa. i graduated high school in 1970. i didnt literally burn my bra. but i heard the message. i am a independent thinker. u know better than i how independent thinking will get u in trouble. when i would talk about myself in aa. i would be put down by the older men in aa. the old timer of the group didnt like what i would say. he would tell my sponser to put a rein one me. well it is horse country here. or then the next person to share would talk about a generational thing. it was all about put down. this is about the hypnosis. the psychiatrist that i saw in the hospital was an aa member. saw him in aa meetings . in fact i was in a meeting after being absent from that meeting for a while and a man starting saying shame on u,,, and he was very angry. and this dr. told the person to be quiet. do u know i have seen this person at a lot of meetings and he or his wife never acted angry with me . just one one more strange incident. i will never god bless anyone else or tell them to have a good day. aa propaganda. i am just about to get mad about what happened to me. i was a nurse who worked at a health department when this happened . not alot of experience. i was thrown into a different world. aa takes advadvantage of a person. but i did get what your last person said about aa being nosey, they are. gut instinct
Hello Vicki,
Thank you for the letter. I'm sorry to hear about your pain and suffering.
There is a lot of it going around, isn't there?
Technically, the way that they were messing with your mind is not called hypnosis, it is something else.
You might call it brainwashing. A lot of what A.A. does qualifies as brainwashing.
(Look here.)
Of course they were trying to suck you into the cult and turn you into a well-indoctrinated
person who just parroted all of the right slogans, just like them.
And who attended meetings regularly, and conformed to the group, just like them.
And who said just what they wanted to hear.
So that guy got angry with you when you weren't going along with it.
So it goes. Welcome to freedom.
And have a good day now.
== Orange
[The next letter from Vicki_W is here.]
Date: Tue, August 9, 2011 11:32 am (answered 9 August 2011) Hey Terry, There has GOT to be a easier way to send you few bucks than paypal. I even opened up an account so as to be able to donate ( and have in the past) and today I cant figure the damn thing out. I understand your need for anonomy and all of that. Tom PS I am about two weeks off cigs (13 years off alcohol) and its a BITCH. I think nic is tougher than booze in many ways cause smoking has never gotten me in jail or caused me to lose my mind. Take care.
more per month in service fees than the total donations that
I receive. So they are out of the question.
Have a good day now.
== Orange
P.S.: Congratulations on the cigarettes. I also found quitting smoking
to be much harder than quitting alcohol. Nicotine is one very strange
drug.
Last updated 8 March 2013. |
