|
AH HA!
My son could have DIED FOR ALL THAT RICHARD CARED And the DIRECTOR WAS
awfull THIS IS A OUTRAGE,and is not comming to MY JESUS!
I HAVE WITTNESSED others being like CULTISH with the Words of My GOD'
I Do not think Jesus Approves,in CULT PRAISE awfull!
Hi again Linda,
You have a good day too.
== Orange
Date: Sat, July 24, 2010 7:12 pm (answered 31 July 2010)
i say 2 u.
Well, gee, I don't know what to say.
Have a good day.
== Orange
Date: Sat, October 30, 2010 11:20 pm (answered 21 November 2010)
can be permanent suiside..........too see that too sad for all who love
Hi again, Linda,
Well, I'm glad that you didn't die that way. So have a good life now.
== Orange
Hello! Thanks for such an informative web site. Keep up the good work! Do you happen to know if there are any secular support groups for families or friends of persons who are addicted to alcohol? If you do know, could you email me back with some suggestions? Thanks! Katherine
Hello Katherine,
Thank you for the compliments and the question. That is a tough one. I don't know of a group that
exactly matches your description — secular family-of-alcoholics support group.
But I have seen that family members do visit the secular alcoholics' support groups.
I've personally seen a couple of women come to a SMART meeting and explain that
they were not alcoholics, they were wives of alcoholics, but was it okay if they
attended anyway? We said, "Sure, no problem." And those were the women who went
on to explain that they were actually ex-wives. They had tolerated their husbands
drinking for years, but when the husbands sobered up and joined A.A. and became
crazy true believers who devoted their entire lives to A.A., that was just too much and
the women divorced them.
So the women were attending meetings like SMART to see what else there was
for recovery besides becoming religious nutcases.
My suggestion is to check out the usual secular support groups like SMART, SOS,
and Lifering. You will probably find a lot of kindred spirits. Many, many alcoholics
were also children of alcoholics, or relatives of alcoholics in other ways,
so the issues that they face are often the same as the ones that you face.
I just reprinted the list of secular groups again,
here.
I would also get into a bunch of those online forums and ask there. If someone
has not started a secular family support group, they should.
Have a good day now.
== Orange
Date: Thu, June 24, 2010 4:55 am (answered 8 July 2010) Thanks, Orange. 1. I was thinking about you this morning because my household financial circumstances have improved recently and I would like to make a donation towards the cost of keeping your site online, and that includes after your death, or my death. Do you feel that the future of your site is in any danger due to financial restraints? Do you have an 'heir', so to speak? I feel that your site is so important that I would like to know that its ongoing presence online is assured. It is my impression that anyone who speaks against the 12 step movement links to the ops, for its references apart from anything else; we need the ops to have a permanent net presence. I will donate via paypal, but if the financial future of the site is in any danger at all (and let me know about ideological difficulties too, I would take a more long term view. I hear you had a problem with aol which was eventually sorted). I will make a modest donation via paypal, but I am thinking in terms of my will.
Hi X,
It's good to hear from you again.
The way things are now, when I die, the web site dies. I have given official permission
for anybody to mirror the site after I'm dead, but I think — hope — maybe we
can do better than that. We were just talking about that in a previous letter,
here.
Having a small group of moderators who manage the forums will supply some live
bodies to keep things going.
In the long run, perhaps incorporation as a foundation is necessary. I don't think
you can bequeath money to a dead person, or to a dead person's web site.
Anybody got any ideas?
2. I urge you to register with the Guardian newspaper in the UK (free and fairly easy), which has the largest net profile of all UK papers. They regularly have a thread called, 'What do you want to talk about?', where people send in suggestions which are regularly used. You will get a very very big audience. If I were someone as articulate as you, I would wait until they start the 'WDYWTTA' thread and jump in with the first comment, to get maximum readership. But please just try it now, because they have one going at the moment. Ah yes, the Guardian. I'm already registered with them. I like them. I like to frequent foreign newspapers because they will tell the truths that the American newspapers won't. Like did you know that Greg Palast could get his stories of corruption in the Florida elections in 2000 — purging of qualified black voters because they had names that merely resembled felons — printed and broadcast by the BBC in London, but neither the New York Times nor the Washington Post would print the stories? 3. I agree that 'The ineffectiveness of the 12 steps' is the best starting point. It says it all. 4. I sent some bits from 'Stinkin' thinkin'' to Private Eye, but more from a humorous point of view than anything else. 5. I am thinking of Mark Thomas and Dave Gorman in the UK, both stand up comedians who either take on heavy issues or question sacred cows. 6. Please write something for the Guardian. Or look at Mumsnet (both UK sites; both read by lots of people, both free to all. Please try mumsnet; they have a powerful and very (good for us) argumentative membership. Okay, I'll have to work on that. 7. I have also been considering writing to British medical insurers; BUPA, Norwich Union, etc, enclosing 'TEOTTS'. What do you think of this angle? The Priory does not have shareholders. I rang a couple of 'treatment' facilities for my fictional alcoholic brother and I was told that he was in denial. I asked their success rates and they very proudly told me 65%, but on closer questionning, the 65% meant that 65% had lasted the residential course. I think that is a very good angle. I cannot think of another area of modern medicine where quackery is acceptable. Try billing the health insurance companies for treating cancer with colloidal gold, arsenic, and prayer, and see how much money you get. And yet the insurance companies pay for 12-Step religion every day. 8. I am also very wary of putting my head above the parapet. All the best.
Okay, X, have a good day now.
== Orange
Hi Agent Orange, Thank you soooo much for making your website. It is so amazing and helpful. I used to be in AA and after being raped by my boyfriend, who was of course in the program as well, and having all of my AA friends turn their back on me, I have condemned AA. I am now in college in a sexuality class and have to write a paper and do a presentation on a subject of my choice involving sex. I have decided to present about sex in recovery and I would like to know if you have any particular articles that may be helpful or know of any videos I could use. I will of course continue to look through on your site and others but it seems that the search engine on your site does not work so that makes things a little tricky. Thanks a lot hope you are having a great day! Alicia
Hello Alicia,
Thank you for all of the compliments. Sorry to take so long to answer; boy did this
letter get misplaced. I just found another bundle of letters that got stashed and
forgotten many months ago. I got kind of disorganized when I was moving to a new home.
I cannot think of anything special that you haven't probably already found.
The stories about sexual exploitation are just getting to be so commonplace.
First off, of course, there are the really outrageous groups like
Mike Quinones'
"Midtown Group" in Washington DC.
The list that is linked there also lists several other groups around
the country.
And then there are the stories of sexual exploitation in
the list of A.A. horror stories.
Oh, and that "Entropy" search engine (at the bottom of all of the web pages)
does work, sort of. It just isn't very easy to use.
All that it does is give you the URL of the web page where something is found, and
then reprint the top few lines of the file, which have nothing to do with what
you were searching for. So what you have to do is open the page, and use the web
browser's built-in search function (usually a slash '/') to search within the web page
to get to what you really want.
Anyway, you have probably finished the paper and graduated by now, right?
Oh well, have a good day anyway.
== Orange
Dear Webmaster: I am SO glad to have come across you website. Your information just REASSURED me that what I was thinking was correct. I was FORCED by the mental health system attend AA/NA meetings because of a prescription drug problem, which I have successfully (and gladly) been cured. My problem was the 'detox.' The detox symptoms were so great that I never could fully make it though the withdrawal and would just give in and take my prescribed and narcotic medication. It wasn't that I just didn't want to quit. It had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with "character defects" as AA/NA preaches. I am so happy to be clean and it has NOTHING to do with AA/NA. I totally IGNORED the AA/NA teachings, and felt like I was being FORCED to attend a meeting with some strange cult. If people THINK that AA/NA is NOT a cult, just try to disagree with one of the members at a meeting! They will NOT speak to you, and totally ostracize you; they may even ask you not to come back. I feel like "who the heck is this Bill W. and what makes HIM the final authority on addiction & recovery?" I always had a problem with saying "My name is bla bla bla and I'm an addict," because I felt that I was cured of drug dependency, as I have NO DESIRE to get back on addictive prescription medication that I was taking before. I am only too happy to be off the medication. However, AA/NA was always trying to "correct" me by saying I would never be cured, and that is absolutely ridiculous. They even corrected me at a meeting when I was forced by a drug counselor to speak about my problems. I introduced myself (as I was made to do) by saying my name and that I was an "addict." Anyway, it turned out that I was approached by the chair of the meeting and asked that in the future would I please identify myself as an "alcoholic." I answered VERY quickly and said that I would certainly mind, because I hate alcohol, had maybe 3 drinks (which I practically wasted since I only took a sip or two) my entire life, and that I didn't have a problem with alcohol and would not introduce myself that way. This woman actually had the audacity to ask me to LIE and say that I was ANYWAY out of "respect for the meeting." Have you ever heard of something so crazy???? I basically told her that I WOULD NOT lie, and that I just wouldn't speak, no matter what, in one of their meetings from then on, no matter what the drug counselor said I had to do. Being in the psychiatric nursing field (I have been a nurse for approximately 20 years), I can tell you that they INCORRECTLY use the terms "adverse reaction" and "allergy." An adverse reaction is NOT defined in the manner of which THEY use it, and neither is allergy. I actually had several people in AA/NA tell me that I was WRONG when I told them that there were certain dynamics of: relationships/problems/issues that a person needed to see a professional (counselor, therapist, psychiatrist, etc etc) about, because a "sponsor" is not qualified to address those issues. They continued to argue with me until finally I just gave up. HOW could they actually think an unqualified "sponsor" (who is nothing more than a former alcoholic or addict themselves) could be BETTER than someone with schooling specially geared to that specific issue? These people are OUT OF THEIR MINDS. I am college educated man, and it was only too apparent to me that this is CLEARLY a cult organization of the first rank. Because of my occupation, I have seen many 12 step programs, and worked loosely with them through clients. I find it sad that mental health facilities are being increasingly and WRONGLY more reliant on these 12 step programs. I am seeing the trend swing towards 12 step programs the longer that I nurse, it is disgusting. I had NO IDEA that these programs were like this until I was forced to attend them. It makes me ill to know that all the patients I was working with also being forced to attend 12 step programs and on top of that, were being subjected to this against their will. Apparently the majority of the public is unaware of what a cult these programs really are. People in mental hospitals, chemical dependency centers, and the court system SHOULD NOT IN ANY WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM be forced to join a religion. And I am a devoutly religious man. But it is a religion of my choosing, not one forced upon me by a health care system/court system. Because I was forced through a chemical dependency program to attend these crazy meetings, I was able to see EXACTLY what you are speaking about. They continue to make the members state things like "my name is John Doe, and I'm an alcoholic" which ONLY REINFORCES to the client that they will NEVER RECOVER! THAT IS NOT NORMAL! THAT IS NOT CONDUCIVE TO TRUE RECOVERY. I could go on & on & on & on, but it literally makes me sick to my stomach to even discuss this very sick program. Thanks so much for all the WONDERFUL information that you have provided. It is CERTAINLY the truth. God bless you friend, Regards, GC
Hello GC,
Thank you for the letter and the compliments. You make a lot of good points, and I
couldn't agree more.
We were just talking about that "I am an alcoholic" problem a few letters
back,
here and
here and
here.
It is very unhealthy to spend years labeling yourself as an alcoholic or an addict.
And of course recovery is possible. Obviously, there comes a day when it is
time to change the rap to, "Hi. My name is Terry, and I used to drink too much,
but that was many years ago, and now I'm doing other things with my life. Want to
hear how I quit drinking and changed my life?"
It is some kind of national crime for A.A. and N.A. to dominate the drug and alcohol
recovery business (which is what it is — the business of selling cult religion and
quack medicine to sick people).
Have a good day now.
== Orange
Date: Wed, March 3, 2010 10:10 pm (answered 9 July 2010) Thank you for your response. I copied and pasted over 600 pages of your work, that should keep me very busy reading for a while. I am a "dry drunk" by AA standards as I chose to not drink and I chose to do that wihout a "program". My boyfriend told me tonight with glee that he got got to be the "Greeter" and he got his first "Sponsee"! (aargh) I truly appreciate your research and your view as I feel very much the same. It is very difficult to be in a serious relationship with someone who lives by his 12-step program every day and attends a meeting of some sort every day. He gets all this recognition, support and celebration because he made a choice not to drink. Sometimes I just want to celebrate me. Grrr. Anyway, thanks again for your response and for sharing all your hard work. I sincerely look forward to reading further. Good day. Shannon
Hello again, Shannon,
Sorry to hear about your difficult relationship.
Yes, being in a relationship with somebody who drank the koolaid is really tough.
But it sounds like you are at least taking care of your own health —
both physical health and mental health.
So have a good day now.
== Orange
Hello again, There is a site called orange-papers.com that is pro AA. The bastards are trying to divert people from your site to a misleading one. In the future I will have to be much more careful when I refer people to your site for help.
Hi again, Gene,
Yes, that is a copycat web site. Just an attempt to keep people from seeing the Orange Papers.
Really spiritual behavior, huh?
Date: Thu, March 4, 2010 9:32 am (answered 9 July 2010) Hello, I have a deep outrage against Bill Wilson's AA. I am a Christian and know what a pack of lies he has handed us. Thanks to this site I can help others whose faith has been poisoned by that lunatic. Everything good about Christianity has been turned upside down by AA. In that people like me who are dedicated to Jesus often get slammed by ex-AA people because of a resemblance in our beliefs. Now I have to deal with programed knee-jerk reactions people have against God because of Wilson's treachery. I have a few Christian anti-AA sites to share with anyone interested. Wilson came not to help, but to destroy. I am looking into his so called treatment by the then Nazi psychiatrist Carl Jung. Also I have read of possible contact by Wilson with the satanist Aleister Crowley. That info came from sparklesdelicious website. It is possible Wilson met both individuals in Germany. Perhaps he did not go for "treatment" but for instruction and collaboration. I do not believe Wilson could have done all this on his own. There is a striking similarity between the Big Book and "The Diary Of A Dope Fiend. This may take awhile to track all this down with my limited resources. Remember that the triangle in the circle is an occult symbol used to summon demonic entities. It is also Luciferian in the Masonic symbols. I believe there is more to this picture than just Bill's hocus pocus.
Yes, it is amazing that they declare that A.A. is completely compatible with Christianity,
or even "based on the Bible".
I'm still looking for where it says in the Bible that you can worship anything as
your "Higher Power" —
Jesus, Golden Calf, Group Of Drunks, or Beelzebub...
They are all the same and anything is okay, right?
Oh well, have a good day anyway.
== Orange
I read this and im a little lost. my huband is what aa calls a dry drunk and hes mad all the time and he wont go to a meeting so what can be done for this?
Hello S.C.,
Thank you for the letter. Sorry to take so long to answer; the letter got misplaced
while I was moving.
There isn't really any such thing as a "dry drunk", and going to an A.A. meeting is
not the answer to emotional problems.
Look here to read about the
"Dry Drunk" myth.
In fact, going to A.A. meetings can make him worse off. The constant self-criticism and
confessions and guilt induction are very unhealthy and leave people feeling
depressed and frustrated.
One of the earliest letters
that I got from an A.A. old-timer said,
I have to guess that your husband quit drinking, and now he is angry a lot of the time.
That is actually rather normal. I went through a lot of that too, for years after
quitting drinking. Alcohol makes major changes to the brain, and it takes
years to heal and repair the damage. And then there is the problem
of all of the original causes of drinking that never got resolved.
Like, was he an abused child? That is good for many years of residual anger.
I recommend a couple of things:
Then, if he can increase it to 15 minutes or more every morning, it becomes very powerful.
Good luck. And have a good day.
== Orange
Hello: Thank you for your fantastic site. I agree that AA is complete bullshit. Making matters worse, AA is actively interfering with new, revolutionary methods for combatting alcoholism that work. Nine months ago I was a raging alcoholic, binge drinker who tossed down about fifty drinks a week over the course of three nights. I then read about a drug called Naltrexone in the New York Times. The article is here. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/12/health/12bside.html Naltrexone has previously been marketed as an anti-craving drug used with abstinence. It failed miserably when used this way and therefore has a bad reputation in the medical community. The correct way to take the drug is with continued drinking — taking the pill one hour before consumption. The pill alters the buzz and basically eliminates the positive reinforcement for drinking. I am part of a support network located at www.thesinclairmethod.com. My handle there is Minneapolisnick. After nine months of taking naltrexone before I drink I am cured of my alcoholism and no longer crave alcohol. Dozens of people at our site are either cured entirely of their alcoholism or have their consumption and craving for alcohol drastically reduced thanks to taking naltrexone one hour before they drink. My beef with AA is that they are literally killing thousands of people by preventing people from discovering medical solutions for alcoholism that actually work. Thank you for your great work. Sincerely,
Nick S.
Hello Nick,
Thank you for the letter. Sorry to take so long to answer it; it got misplaced
while I was moving to a new home.
Thank you for the information. I don't know a great deal about Naltrexone; I quit cold turkey;
but it sounds very good. The way I see it is, "Whatever works. The more tools we can
have in our toolbox, the better."
By the way, I see that you are a lawyer. Ever considered suing A.A. for medical malpractice?
Or for negligent treatment of sick people, or depraved indifference, or
for manslaughter? Or for practicing medicine without a license?
Have a good day.
== Orange
Date: Thu, March 4, 2010 11:07 am (answered 9 July 2010) Defenders of AA are always telling me, "It has done wonders for so many people!" And my response is this: NO IT DIDN'T. Our incredible instinct for survival and inherent need to escape a miserable life of alcoholism is the driving force behind the sobriety. I'm quite convinced that if alcoholics were not railroaded into AA but instead were directed to witchcraft/voodoo classes, that an equal number of people would be able to maintain their sobriety by sticking pins in their voodoo dolls. Desperate times call for desperate measures! If you had told me at my low point of boozing that standing upside down naked on top of the Empire State building while reciting the Koran would stop me from drinking, I would have tried it. And I probably would have maintained my sobriety about as long as your average AAer with that strategy. And then all of mainstream society would be declaring, "It's amazing what standing upside down naked on the Empire State building while reciting the Koran can do to help people stop drinking."
I quite agree. A.A. just claims those few people who sober themselves up, while
ignoring and not counting the great numbers of people who don't quit drinking.
("They didn't work the program right. They didn't
thoroughly follow our path. They didn't really try.")
I often joke about my quack cures, like The Baskin-Robbins Cure, or The Ballerina Dancing
Cure, or The Patty-Cake Treatment Program, or the Tiddly-Winks Treatment Program,
but they aren't entirely a joke.
Truth is, I'd be happy to participate in a real scientific experiment, a valid
Randomized Longitudinal Controlled Study,
to test one of those cures against Alcoholics Anonymous.
I'd happily teach the Patty-Cake Treatment Program,
or the Tiddly-Winks Cure, and I'm sure that I can match or beat the success rate of
any program that is based on Alcoholics Anonymous and the Twelve Steps.
And I'm sure that we will have a lower suicide rate, too.
And besides that, we will be very "Spiritual".
Have a good day.
== Orange
[The story of Carmen continues here.]
My daughter is undergoing treatment for an alchohol problem. She came home from her first AA meeting and said it was a cult... Thanks so much for all of this information. She's decided to be accountable to herself and make better decisions, not allow strangers to declare her "sick" and that the only "cure" is AA. B.
Hello B.,
Thank you very much for the letter. That is very encouraging.
You daughter has arrived at something that really is the essence
of the whole solution to the problem: Just manage yourself. Just control your own
drinking, by either moderation or abstinence. She's got it all.
So have a good day now. Oh, and please give my congratulations to your daughter.
== Orange
Date: Fri, March 5, 2010 9:34 am (answered 9 July 2010)
and I see you have letters on your site? If you put them all up, please
leave my name off...
No problem. Have a good day now.
== Orange
Hi, This is an excellent article from 1963. I could describe it forever, or just let you read it because my experience was exactly what this man described. I have been casually drinking (not getting drunk) for several years now after almost 10 years in AA. It's amazing I had not one person who thought this was possible except my husband. This excellent article describes the lock-step nature of AA and the ability of "former" alcoholics to drink safely, given they have addressed the problems that lead to their need to drink to excess. Oh, and for the AA people reading this that say, "that's impossible, you're lying to yourself!", I have no need or desire to drink the way I did. It took a great deal of work (outside AA) and soul searching, but the reasons I drank have been resolved. I hope you enjoy the article, I know I did! Sarah http://www.eskimo.com/~burked/history/harpers.html P.S. Thank you again for your help when I was leaving AA and profoundly traumatized by the experience of being on of their "flock".
Hi Sarah,
Thanks for the link. Yes, isn't that a perceptive article? That was Dr. Arthur H. Cain,
who clearly recognized that A.A. was a cult that was seriously departing from reality.
And, if I'm not mistaken, Dr. Cain's Harper's article was the first article
in a nationwide magazine that
criticized Alcoholics Anonymous, and stated that A.A. was not the
wonderful panacea that they were claiming.
I just happen to have both of Dr. Cain's articles,
here.
"BurkeD" seems to have confused the source of the article. I have that
article as coming from the September 19, 1964 issue of the Saturday Evening Post.
The Harper's article is quite different. Happily, I have both.
I'm glad to hear that you are feeling better.
The big secret that A.A. does not want people to know is that lots of "alcoholics"
(whatever
that word is really supposed to mean) recover by tapering off into moderate,
controlled drinking.
Many years ago, way back in 1980, the famous government think tank,
the Rand Corporation, found
that the successful people who had stopped drinking self-destructively
were evenly split between total abstinence and tapering off into
moderate, controlled, drinking.
So total abstinence is not the only way.
It all depends on the individual person.
Personally, I'm one of the people who has to totally abstain from alcohol to keep it under control.
(And I have to totally abstain from tobacco to keep from getting readdicted to cigarettes.)
But that is my problem, not yours.
When that Rand Corporation report was published, the A.A. true believers had a hissy-fit.
They screamed that the Rand Corporation was killing alcoholics.
Ann Landers indignantly printed a denunciation
and said that it was irresponsible to release such information.
As if alcoholics are too stupid to handle the truth.
(Remember Jack Nicholson screaming, "The truth? You can't handle the truth!")
But in my experience, alcoholics are not a separate species of stupid sub-humans.
They are as intelligent as the rest of the people, and they
need more true information, not less.
(What a
vicious, insulting stereotype
of alcoholics
A.A. really spreads.)
So I'm glad to hear that my web site helped you in some way.
Have a good day now.
== Orange
Orange ~ I read your site about AA, very interesting perspective you have there. Not that I agree, here's wishing you a wonderful life.
Hi Judith,
Hey! That's a nice wish. So I wish you a wonderul life too.
And have a good day today.
== Orange
I have been in AA for some time now and appreciate your project. One of AA's biggest faults is discouraging its members to think for themselves. Oddly, AA has given me a good perspective on my life and taught me that I could think for myself. I tune out the majority of what I hear there, I see AA as an opportunity to encourage people to embark on the path of classical philosophy — to seek the good and question the actions of their own existence. For me, my recovery from alcoholism would be worthless if I did not, at about one year of sobriety, do something radical and choose to think for myself. Consequently, I do not seek the people in the AA fellowship who are robots or zealots — I seek the independent, free-thinking philosophers. They do exist within AA — although they are few and far between. Anyway, I was reading a letter on your site about a group called 'Jerry's Kids' within Eugene/Springfield AA. I can verify what John S. claimed about them. It is common knowledge for those who have been in AA around here over the past couple years. Jerry S. holds his own meetings around here and has been personally barred from several local meetings. He conducts these meetings and sponsors both men and women. Those who are his followers may not be directly sponsored by him, but all the Jerry's Kids emphasize belonging to a 'Sponsorship Tree'. They draw in newcomers and corner them into being sponsored by people with relatively no sobriety. From what I hear, Jerry's meetings are focused on his interpretation and encourage kneeling prayers during the meeting. Its members encourage one another to tell their senior members their secrets. Jerry's Kids, from what I understand, has been dormant in the Eugene area until about one year ago. His meetings have more followers now and they attend outside meetings to employ their zealous recruiting practices. His now 21 year old wife attends meetings and exhibits behavior that is surreal. On the whole, I notice that they pick on young newcomers and preach about accepting that God will do anything for them and that everything is okay. -P (Obviously I would appreciate remaining anonymous if you choose to publish my letter. Thanks.)
Hello P,
Thank you for the letter, and I'm glad to hear that your brain is awake and functioning.
And thanks for the news about Jerry's Kids. What a tragi-comedy. And it is especially
unfortunate that they are preying on the young. There are just wanna-be cult leaders
everywhere, aren't there?
Since I'm just outside of Portland, and they are down in Eugene, that isn't very far away.
Have a good day, and a good life. Oh, and congratulations on your year of sobriety.
Now it gets a little easier.
== Orange
In catching up with the latest at Orange Papers, I noticed the remarks about certain AA groups being unhappy about courts sentencing offenders to the program. Perhaps you have covered this somewhere in your research that I have not come across but in case not, I point out the testimony of Chuck Chamberlain (Clancy Imislund's sponsor) before Congress. Senator Harold Hughes led the hearing and he was an AA member (I used to have a copy of one of his talks). My interpretation of the testimony is that these two kicked off the game of recovery via government intervention and subsidization. AA has no business complaining. http://silkworth.net/aahistory/chuckc1969.html The website with the testimony is going through an upgrade so the link may not work (but you may already know this since I picked up the site from Orange Papers). The particulars are Chuck C. September 27, 1969 Testimony before a U.S. Senate Subcommittee. Your work is most appreciated!
Hi Kathy,
Thank you for the tip. I didn't know about that. I haven't read all of Silkworth.net, yet...
That is so interesting that I made a local copy,
here, so we don't need to worry
about Silkworth.net becoming disorganized.
Yes, Chuck Chamberlain sure parrots the party line. He's got so many of
the standard slogans in there:
By the way, if alcoholics are really that bad, why on Earth would anyone ask an A.A.
member for advice on how to live a good life?)
Oh well, have a good day anyway. I'm going to. It's summer, and the sun is shining,
and it's beautiful out there.
== Orange
Last updated 12 July 2015. |
